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It’s the end of the day, the dishes are done, the kitchen is finally looking presentable, and you’ve just sat down and breathed. Then your partner puts their hand lovingly on your back, and a part of your body tenses up. Because you know where that hand might lead, where that innocent gesture, that once comforting moment, could lead. Your brain starts to panic. It starts to feel like work. Here we go. Someone wants more from me when I’ve got nothing left to give. How am I going to get out of this? How am I going to say no without causing a fight or hurting their feelings?

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Welcome to This Complex Life. I am Marie Vakakis, and each week we make a bit more sense of the messy, complicated and every now and again gloriously beautiful business of being human. Mostly the relationships we’re in and the mental health that’s all tangled up in them.

Today, what to do when one of you wants more sex than the other one does, and why the number and frequency is never the actual problem. Let’s get into it.

1:00

This is an Ask Marie episode, and today’s question is one that I get quite a lot.

My partner wants sex more than I do. I love him and I’m attracted to him. I just don’t think about it as much, and by the end of the day, I’ve got nothing left to give. I’ve got nothing left to give anybody. He says he feels rejected. I feel like I’m failing at something I’m supposed to want. Is something wrong with me?

What do you do when one of you wants more and one of you wants less? Oh, poor listener. That is a really tricky scenario, and it’s something that a lot of people do bring to me in therapy sessions. It might not be the first thing that they talk about, but it’s there. It’s usually something that one person is trying to talk about and the other is maybe avoiding.

2:00

It’s really quite common. As a couples therapist, I’ve seen this in most of the long term relationships that I have worked with. At some point during that relationship, there has been a discrepancy in desire, in libido, or just what people can handle and what they’ve got capacity for.

There are so many myths and misconceptions about sex, and I’ve spent a lot of time deep diving into this topic for my Couples Therapy Masterclass series, which is training other therapists on how to work with couples. I have a whole module on working with desire discrepancy, because these kinds of questions show up in couples therapy all the time, not just in sex therapy, and sometimes in individual therapy too.

People struggle to talk about sex, and if you’re bringing it to your therapist, that’s awesome. I want people to know how to handle that if that’s what comes up. Let’s go back to the listener question. If this is you, what can you do? What could be happening?

3:00

The first thing is that desire shifts for both people over time. Illness, medication side effects, parenting, stress, hormone changes, body changes. There are so many things that change over time that impact someone’s sexual drive and someone’s sexual desire, and that’s normal. That’s all part of being human.

It doesn’t mean you’re incompatible. If two people have been together long enough, you’ll start to just see differences that emerge, differences in so many areas of life.

Where this gets really heated is the meaning that people make of this. What that not now or not today means. Does it mean they don’t desire me? Does it mean they think I’m repulsive? Does it mean they don’t want me? Am I a nag for asking? Am I broken for not wanting this? The meaning we make of that without understanding the bigger picture is the bit that really hurts people.

4:00

We have these sexual scripts. We have these ideas about what sex is supposed to look like, who’s supposed to initiate, and what it means if that script doesn’t go according to plan. Every single one of us has an idea, like a template of what we think it’s supposed to look like, and who chases and who pursues and who is supposed to be coy, and all of these different rules. If your partner is pursuing and you don’t feel like it, they might make meaning from that, and this is where it gets really tricky.

There’s no correct amount. There’s no perfect number. If someone says, what’s the average number of times people have sex? Some people could be every day, and some could be once every three months, once a year. There is no average that works for everybody. It’s not something you can just write a contract about and say, we will be happy if we’re having sex this many times a week.

4:50

Some people can’t even agree on a definition of what sex actually means, so sometimes we need to go even more zoomed out, and even ask, what does that look like for you? What does that mean? Frequency, there’s no normal frequency. You have to give that up. You can’t keep thinking this person has more than me or less than me.

It’s negotiated and worked out between the two of you, and what that looks like, what sex is, can change from couple to couple, or whatever relationship dynamic you have. Discussing what it is probably a good place to start. What that means, what that looks like. If we go with the golden rule, it is fun, it is pleasurable, and everyone is willing and able to be there and can say no without any unintended consequence. If there is a consequence for saying no, then it’s not really consensual.

5:40

Couples don’t come to therapy to talk about frequency. They come in because of what not meeting the frequency that they have in their head as being suitable, what that means. We should be having more sex, shouldn’t we? Are other people having more? These kinds of questions can create some frustration for people.

In this question, I’m reading into it because it’s all I’ve got to go on. He hears no, and reads it as I’m not wanted anymore. Maybe they don’t love me. Am I a failure? Am I man enough? Is what I’m doing not enough? It might start to really create feelings of rejection and inadequacy.

6:30

Then the bit that often either creates the fight or the awkwardness is the meaning we make from that. Where I see this really go pear shaped, or I guess the unintended consequence of this, is all affection drops off, because someone doesn’t want to give somebody the wrong idea. That hand on the lower back might be an indication for closeness, and that might be read as, oh, is sex on the table tonight?

If saying no upsets the other person, what you might see start to happen is maybe sitting on separate sides of the couch or on different couches together, or avoiding going to bed at the same time, because I don’t want to give them the wrong idea. Then that builds and builds, and it goes from sitting on opposite sides of the couch to I don’t want to give them a passionate kiss, because then they’re going to think, oh, that means we’re having sex tonight.

7:20

We stop kissing, and maybe we stop holding hands, because holding hands might lead to kissing, and then kissing might lead to sex, and I don’t want to have sex, so I better not hold their hand so they don’t get the wrong idea. Over weeks or months slowly, affection can really just fall off the agenda altogether, and there’s so much tension and pressure about it, and no one’s really known how to talk about it in any constructive way.

Neither person is really getting what they need. That spreads. That vibe, that dissatisfaction just spreads throughout the whole relationship to hugs, kisses, cuddles, holding hands, sitting next to each other on the couch, all in an attempt to avoid the awkward conversation or the distressing conversation about sex. Eventually maybe one or both stop trying.

8:00

I might stop trying to hold your hand because I’m sick of reaching for it and it getting knocked back. I’m sick of trying to give you a hug and you pulling away. All of these little adjustments are made, and before you know it, you might look at the relationship and think, how did we even get here? How did it become like this?

It’s not about sex, it’s about a pattern that’s been created, and perhaps some communication difficulties in how to talk about it, how to bring it up, how to sit with the discomfort of these feelings and really understand what’s happening.

Then you’re both lonely in the same house, living like housemates or ships in the night, as I often hear. Just coexisting, pleasant, maybe things are perfectly fine. You’re really great friends, you get along great for the kids, you do fun things on the weekend together, you hang out with each other’s friends and families, and it’s great, and yet you still feel disconnected and lonely.

8:50

It’s really tricky to be honest about the cost of this, because if you’re the one who doesn’t want sex, that might be fair enough, but maybe you wanted all the other things. Maybe you still wanted to be held, or you still wanted to be flirted with, or maybe you still wanted to be desired even if you don’t have the energy for sex. Once all of those other things get stripped away, it can feel really lonely.

Avoiding the conversation makes it easier now, but over time, if we keep kicking that can down the road, it doesn’t become any easier. It gets harder, and it’ll make it harder in two months, three months, six months, a year. However long it takes you to talk about it, it will only get harder.

9:40

One of the biggest myths that I have learned when learning about desire is it doesn’t always come first. This is such a huge myth, that people wait for the desire spark to be lit, and then action to follow, and it’s not always the case. Some people have what we call responsive desire, and so they might need to be flirted with and touched and kissed, or for the setting to be warm and inviting, and then the desire kicks in and they can really enjoy themselves.

For other people, it might look spontaneous, but it could just be that seeing your partner is enough for you to desire them. The meaning we then make about the other person who has the responsive desire is if they desired me, they would just feel it, and so if I have to work for it, then they don’t desire me, and then that becomes the problem.

10:30

We make all of these assumptions, and we make it about us, and we label, and we judge, and that is not good for a great sex life. This idea of spontaneous desire being the norm is total bullshit. If you’ve been waiting to feel like it before you actually do anything, you might wait a very long time, and then decide that something’s broken in me if I don’t want this.

Most people find this out in their 30s and 40s and later, that this is normal, that there are differences in how we experience desire, and there’s no right way, there’s no wrong way, and what you’re feeling is totally normal, and that’s totally okay too. There’s no clean split that men want it this way, women want it that way. There are so many variations, and it can change over time for people as well.

11:20

Understanding your own desire, and what is a turn on and what is a turn off, and whether you’re more responsive or more spontaneous, and having a conversation with your partner can be really amazing.

Sometimes people think if they plan it, then it should be fun and spontaneous, and that just doesn’t work. Maybe sometimes it works. When you’re first dating it works, but even then, there was a bit of anticipation. You might have known that you’re having a date coming up. You could be thinking about what to wear, where to go, where to take this person. You might be thinking about your hair or makeup or what perfume or cologne you wear. Maybe you’ve gone to the gym that day to perk yourself up, and you’re thinking about them, and that in itself is creating some friction, some tension, some heat.

12:10

Then you see them, and it goes well, and there’s a spark there. That’s very different to sitting there in your flannelette pyjamas on a cold winter’s day on the couch with your partner and just expecting desire to just magically happen. When relationships change, when dynamics change, when there’s work to balance and maybe children or aged parents and all these other things happening, there’s nothing wrong with planning for it.

There’s nothing wrong with putting it in a diary or having a night of the week where you think, I can look forward to this. I know that’s coming up. I might need to prepare the house this way or put some candles in the room or do this particular personal grooming, and these are the things that I can do to feel vibrant and sexy and confident. That in itself can build anticipation.

12:50

What gets in the way? Trying to find a weekend away, and trying to get babysitters, and organise things for the kids, and big grand gestures is not going to solve the problem. A lot of the times I see couples try to do this, and they planned a weekend away, and the expectations are so high that they end up fighting, and sometimes the fights are enormous, and they’re completely blindsided.

Often it’s the build up, the pressure, the expectation that wasn’t maybe clear to the other person, or it was just too much. A better question, instead of what to do different, and what can we do more of, is what would need to be happening? What would need to not be happening? Are there small children that are getting in the way? Is it a messy house? Is it we’d need to have these things taken off my plate? Actually talking about all of those things.

13:40

In Emily Nagoski’s work, she’s a world renowned sex therapist and has a couple of amazing books, Come As You Are and Come Together, and she uses the analogy of an accelerator and brakes. Thinking about what is on your accelerator, what turns you on, what drives you, and what pushes the brakes.

You might have a really sensitive accelerator, so there could be a messy house and chores to do, and a crying baby or a screechy kid learning the drums next door, or the dishwasher on. All of these things might not faze you. Your accelerator’s on, ready to go. Your partner might have very sensitive brakes, and so hearing the dishwasher on in the background, or hearing their child stirring in the bed, or knowing that they’ve got all these things to do tomorrow might just put the foot on the brake.

Having a think about what’s on your accelerator and what’s on your brakes, and how to talk about that as a couple, can be relationship saving at this point.

14:40

When someone presents to me with one of these dynamics as a problem for them, one of my ways to work through it, it might seem counterintuitive, but it’s actually to take sex off the table. Agree on a set time where you don’t have sex, where it is off the table. You might need to define what that means.

You might have certain gestures, you might have certain things that you’re happy to do and play with and fool around with that you don’t consider sex, but you consider flirting and playful, and that might be fine. Being really clear that no matter what, we are not having sex for a month, two months, three months, whatever.

15:20

Taking that off the table can then allow the bodies to start to relax. That you can maybe have a shower together, that you can make out, that you can hold hands, that you can do those things and know that it doesn’t have to lead anywhere, that it’s not going to lead anywhere. It can take a little while, and both people have to be willing to do this and not feel like, oh, you’re leading me on, or this got hot and heavy and you didn’t follow through, and no pressure. We want to get rid of all of that and try having a no sex period.

The point isn’t to have a relationship where you’re going without. It’s to take the pressure off so that every physical gesture doesn’t feel loaded and heated. It takes the question mark and that possibility of each touch needing to mean something.

16:10

If you’re going to have this conversation, have it not when you’re actually fighting about sex. It might need to be in the middle of the day. You might need to think, hey, I listened to this podcast episode, and it reminded me about this thing we haven’t really spoken about. Would now be a good time? You might need to introduce it, and let your partner know that this might be really awkward for you, and this might be like your crappy first draft trying to spit this out and have that conversation.

Think, this is my first draft. You know I find this stuff really awkward. None of us grew up having great sex education in school, not a single one of us. The sex ed at my school was done by our school reverend, and it was not about pleasure or desire. It was really about STDs, STIs and pregnancy, and that’s it.

17:00

Even if you have better sex education now, and we’re looking at reproductive systems, and we’re talking about consent, none are talking about pleasure, and desire, and all of these things. A lot of this is foreign to us. It is still evolving. We’re still understanding it, and it’s okay to fumble through it. Let your partner know that you’re fumbling through it.

If you’re the partner who would like to want more sex but doesn’t seem able to, or can’t, or feels like something’s getting in the way, then you can name that. I encourage you to say, it’s not that I don’t want to, but here is what’s getting in the way. See if you can problem solve those things together.

17:40

You’re not failing at anything. You might be tired and carrying a story about what it means to not be having enough sex, whatever enough even means to you. Start by saying that to yourself. I’m not failing. There’s nothing wrong with me.

My guide to sex and intimacy is free. You can grab that on my website or in the show notes. If you want to work on this properly with your partner, you can check out my Relationship Reset. There’s a full module on intimacy. It’s a couple hour workshop. It’s on demand. You can do it in your own time at home, and there’s also a link to that in the show notes.

18:00

This has been This Complex Life. Thank you for being here, and I’ll see you next time. If you have a question that you want answered, please reach out to me. I read all of the questions, even if I can’t get around to answering all of them. There’ll be a link to that in the show notes as well.