Marie Vakakis: [00:00:00] Motherhood often gets described as an instant transformation. You have the baby and suddenly you are a mum. But the truth is far more complicated for many women. It’s a profound identity shift that can film messy, disorienting, and beautiful all at once. Today I am speaking with Bronte Taylor. About trence, the often hidden transition into motherhood and why it’s so much more than sleepless nights and nappy changes.

We’re going to talk about the guilt that shows up when you try to be yourself. The stories that moms tell themselves about not doing enough and how being honest about the hard moments can actually make motherhood feel lighter. So joining me on this complex life, welcome to Accredited Mental Health Social Worker, Bronte Taylor.

Bronte Taylor: Thank you so much, Marie. I am really happy to be here with you today having this [00:01:00] conversation. It’s such an important one. 

Marie Vakakis: It really is. And as a couples and family therapists, more as couples therapists, this became a topic that I was a lot more interested in when. The journey to parenthood and what happens after can land a lot of people in my couple’s therapy chair.

So maybe, I guess I’ll start with becoming a mom from, you know what people say, it really changes everything, but people talk about that no one really prepares you for the shift in your identity. What was. Like for you, I think you’ve got a very unique perspective on this, doing this work with other moms and also co-evolving at the same time.

Bronte Taylor: Yeah, it’s definitely been a journey and I think I followed some different breadcrumbs through my own experience of becoming a mother and found myself in these new spaces where I was able to. Get some new language to understand my experiences. [00:02:00] So I completed a motherhood studies practitioner course, which really informed my existing practice as an accredited mental health social worker and therapist.

I guess, yeah, in what you just said, that identity shift, I had a really big experience probably about a year into postpartum with my first daughter, and it felt like all of a sudden, but looking back, I know there was a slow buildup of uncertainty or discomfort that I was sitting with, and one day I just remember feeling so heavy and being like, who even am I now?

I don’t know. Before I became a mom, I really identified with my job role. And not only was I, uh, in that job in my career, but outside of my career as well, I was really caring and I always had time for other people and my friends, and all of a sudden I [00:03:00] no longer had that time. I was a hundred percent running off someone else’s schedule.

And they needed me. My little baby needed me, but I felt it was really hard to transition to no longer being there for others and just actually taking everything I had to be there for myself and for my daughter, and for my family. So yeah, I think there’s a lot of invisibleness around. Motherhood becoming a mother.

Lots of unspoken elements. That was definitely my experience and I remember even like speaking to my mum and being like, well, what is happening? Like you never said anything about this. You just like asked if I knew what size nappies or had enough onesies. I was like, what about like the waves crashing and storm building inside of me that nobody spoke about?

Yeah, I think it’s a really tricky transition and one that I definitely wish there was more [00:04:00] discussion about in the community. 

Marie Vakakis: What did she say when you asked her that? That’s such a beautiful mother-daughter moment? 

Bronte Taylor: Yeah, we have a very strong relationship and. I guess what it really, I can’t remember her exact words, but what I remember walking away feeling is like, ah, that was a really generational thing to say.

I think like myself and my generation parenting now, it’s very different to when my mom parented and her words were kind of just like, oh, well that’s just a part of it. That’s just like, you kind of, you know, you soldier on you, you pull up your boots and you keep going and. I remember just actually feeling a bit sad and knowing that like there would be so many women whose experiences or emotions or feelings were just dismissed because that was just the way it was behind closed doors.

It. You were expected to present [00:05:00] as having it all together, and so, yeah, I, I remember kind of saying to my mom like, oh, that’s just shit. Actually, it’s not the greatest response, but I, I, I think my mom has actually learn so much through me becoming a mother. Because we do parent differently because we are parenting in different generations, and I definitely am not one to just sit by and not talk about the, I guess, more mental health or emotional aspects of the experience.

Marie Vakakis: I love that conversation. I mean, it’d be so great to even just have. You and your mom have this conversation for listeners, it, the term that came to mind as you’re talking about that was around that medical misogyny, and it’s like something just because it’s seen as common or women focused, that it’s just disregarded as how the impact, and that’s with anything to do with.

Women’s bodies, absolutely everything from endometriosis. And I did an, I dunno if I did an episode or a blog, I [00:06:00] wrote something about that recently. But so many of the women I see come in are in a lot of physical pain. They’ve had pregnancy trauma or birth trauma, and. Those dismissing attitudes from medical professionals or other people have left them feeling really lonely and like they say, I feel like I’m going crazy, or No one understands, and they, they shrink a little 

Bronte Taylor: bit.

Absolutely. One of my beautiful friends and colleagues, Ali Hele, one day in conversation, said to me, it is common, but it is not normal. And we were having a conversation around motherhood experiences going from like pregnancy through to postpartum and beyond. And I just remember when she said that like needing to pause and being like, yeah, it is not normal.

It is not normal to feel so isolated and dismissed and. I guess even silenced in the experience. Like I could have imagined if me and my mom had a different relationship, if I had asked her [00:07:00] like, what is happening? Like what am I going through? And she had just been like, oh, well, it’s just a part of it that could have been really dismissing and silencing to me.

I’m very thankful that I was able to be like, hold up. No, but I could imagine that there are so many women who have felt silenced by others without malice or a negative intention from the other person, but just because that’s what was expected of them. You really see, I think with a lot of women experiences, as you just mentioned, this flow on effect through generations where we are holding different traumas in our body that are just.

Dismissed. 

Marie Vakakis: Yeah, so true. And one of your colleagues, Tammy, did an episode on childhood trauma and the impact that some of those memories experiences can have on adulting. And I think for a lot of the people I see struggle with parenting, one of the things that gets evoked for them is either [00:08:00] they’re so stretched that their normal coping strategies.

Aren’t working or it activates certain experiences from their childhood or their own experience of being disciplined or supported or not from their parents. But we touched on in the intro the word mares, and I only recently became familiar with this probably a year or two ago, thanks to one of my, my lovely clients introduced me to this term and I went off and did some research.

It’s not something we hear about often. It’s not something probably a lot of listeners. Haven’t heard of. How do you explain it? How do you conceptualise that experience? 

Bronte Taylor: I did not learn this word until my daughter was maybe around one and a half, two years old, and it completely shifted the way I viewed my experiences in early motherhood, and I so wish that I had known it before.

I wish that it was taught in our schooling systems [00:09:00] or as a part of, you know, the hospital visits you go to while you’re pregnant, before you become a mother. The way I love to explain it and have heard it explained and it just like made so much sense, is made trence is like adolescents. That awkward time.

When a child transforms into an adult, their body changes, their hormones are raging, their identity is shifting. They have to figure out who they are in the world now, what matters to them, what their values are, and who they wanna be in relation to others. So may Trence is that same transformative process.

But for becoming a mother, it’s a biological, psychological, and social unraveling. Your body changes, your hormones are all over the place and doing new things. Your entire identity, as you know, it can be shattered, and it’s something that you feel like you have to rebuild from the ground up. [00:10:00] You are not just your single self anymore.

You are connected to a little baby and you’re that baby’s everything. Mare Essence can be overwhelming and disorientating because it is a massive life altering transition and it is ongoing. And with each child you go through another mare essence nce. It really impacts all the domains of life, and I think just knowing the word.

Made essence and learning about it can really help in those deep, hard, heavy periods where you do feel lost. You know, you mentioned at the start that sleep deprivation learning these new routines, you are all of a sudden taking on all this new knowledge that you have never had to. Think about before while sitting with those internal changes in your mind and in your body, and you can just feel really [00:11:00] lost.

And I remember when I learned this word. Things just made sense. And I, I remember feel like asking myself like, am I like, am I going insane? Like, what is happening? Why do I feel this way? And I read a book about Ma Trence and I was like, oh yeah, that was me. Oh, I’m fine. That was a part of this. Just nobody told me about it.

As we 

Marie Vakakis: go through, let’s say adolescence, that’s a really good example. There is a grief that some other people around us have. We don’t, ’cause being a kid feels baby-ish and childish, but the people around us. Look at when we were younger and think, oh, she was so cute, or, I love that we used to play together.

And they see that evolution, that growing as something they’re losing. And I wonder if that’s a little bit the same with mares essence, where it’s evolving into a new identity and there’ll be a [00:12:00] grief for what you were, who you were, what you did as a couple usually. Mm-hmm. That comes alongside that. 

Bronte Taylor: Can 

Marie Vakakis: you expand on that tangled question?

Bronte Taylor: Yeah, absolutely. I can. I think there can always be elements of grief when we go through change and may essence is a change of everything. As I said, it impacts all areas of your life, including the relationship with others and yourself. I definitely grieved the, I guess I would call her like the maiden as I became a mother, I was.

Incredibly social. I loved being out and about and I couldn’t access that anymore, and I think I didn’t want to either, but I didn’t know. I didn’t have anybody to have those conversations about. But with that and with the change of lifestyle that mothering brought, there was definitely grief in my friendships.

I was no longer. These super available Bronte that [00:13:00] can go out like in the middle of the day and get a coffee with my friends. Even the relationship between my family of origin changed. I could no longer kind of whip over and help out my younger brother or my mum with something. It was a, nah. I was on a schedule and I had to say no a lot more and.

Definitely, I think grief can come in the form of like your intimate relationships with your partner. It definitely changed like how me and my husband spoke with each other, what both of our priorities were, what both of our needs were. Both of our needs incredibly changed. I was going through made Trence, but my husband was also going through Pat Trence becoming a father for the first time.

And similarly dealing with those intergenerational expectations of what it was to be a father. And we had to sit down and have many conversations. And I think I’m very grateful that I am a therapist because I was able to [00:14:00] facilitate some of those conversations or be like, hold on, our values have changed.

We need to revisit these. What do our values now look like? As a family because we are no longer just two late 20 year olds like saving for a holiday. We are two parents who are sleep deprived and stressed and have very little time for ourselves and. Me and my husband created these non-negotiable moments that we both needed, and it drastically changed how we were able to hold space for each other and with each other as well.

So that grief makes a lot of sense, and I think everybody has a unique experience with grief. Some people it can feel really freeing and empowering. Some people might have more. Trouble letting that go. Like as you said, like for an adolescence, they’re like, yes, I’m becoming an adult. But maybe for the people around them, it’s like, oh, I will no longer get to do [00:15:00] this anymore, or you won’t enjoy spending time with me as much, or whatever it might be.

So I think it’s really important to name the grief that comes with these big life transitions and changes. 

Marie Vakakis: What I’m hearing you say in that is. The importance of communicating and talking about things, and where I see people maybe get this wrong, and it’s not always gendered, but sometimes tends to be a little bit more on the male side, is jumping into try and fix it, and that doesn’t help with the loneliness or feeling seen and understood and sometimes.

Lots of things can be true at once and you might not be able to or want to change anything. It’s simply wanting someone to notice that, sit with you in that space and just feel less alone in it. 

Bronte Taylor: Yeah, absolutely. That’s where like before when I said, uh, I was grieving that maiden [00:16:00] inside of me who was very social.

If my partner had have said, well, you go out with the girls tonight. I’ve got things covered here that wouldn’t have helped me. Maybe for some people it would’ve, but for me, I was like, no, that’s actually not what I’m grieving. I’m just, I just need to be seen and heard and held in this moment. Just a little bit of validation or a cuddle, a cup of tea.

So, yeah, I think you’re spot on there around sometimes we don’t need to be fixed or given the solutions. We just need to be held and heard in a really compassionate way. 

Marie Vakakis: Yeah. It’s almost like we need a bit of a emotions translator. Absolutely. Because I’m thinking of someone I worked with who was a musician prior to having kids and had kids in their forties.

So. Had a pretty established identity and for that first year, hadn’t been able to pick up an instrument and their partner jumped in with, oh, that’s fine. No worries. Uh, we can just, we’ll ask the [00:17:00] babysitter to come an extra this much. And the intention was so good, but it actually was too premature to offer that suggestion.

I think it took a roundabout way get into that conversation, but it was around wanting him to ask some questions, be curious, understand that what she’s given up and what she’s gained as a mother, what she’s missing. And what she’s looking forward to, how music was important and motherhood is also important.

And then maybe at the end could have been, I see this is really important to you. How can we add a bit more in your life? It had to come to that. Solution at the end. ’cause the big feeling there was I’m losing my identity, but also no one’s listening to me. I’m not feeling heard. And so when you’re jumping in straight away trying to offer that solution, it doesn’t help.

No. 

Bronte Taylor: And what you’ve just touched on, or what I heard when [00:18:00] you were giving that example Marie, and thank you for sharing that. I think it’s one that people will be able to resonate with so much is that. Experience of maternal ambivalence where we can hold multiple complex, often clashing emotions at once.

Where it is this, I am gaining so much, but I also have lost things or, um, not connected to things that are really meaningful to me at the moment. And I think it’s, yeah, that was a really beautiful example of like holding the. Joys and positive experiences of motherhood, but feeling maybe like something has been taken away from you in that time that is really important to you and that, yeah, when we’ve got this maternal ambivalence and these complex emotions sitting inside of us, we do just wanna be asked some questions about and maybe supported to [00:19:00] unravel it.

Ourselves as well. It can be so hard to make sense of such big emotions by ourselves and that that comes back to that feeling really isolated feeling, really misunderstood. 

Marie Vakakis: There is a really. Significant difficulty that I see with moms finding it really hard to put themselves first, to have their own needs, even sometimes even knowing what they are.

I mean, I had someone burst into tears because I offered her a cup of tea and. I had another person I asked, I’m like, would you like some tea? She’s like, oh, no, thanks. But I, I didn’t trust, I didn’t trust the, no thanks. I was like, okay, this is weird. So I went and brought a hot cup of water and a selection of tea, and she burst into tears.

She was like, I didn’t want to be a bother. And it’s a, it’s a cup of tea. It was such a simple gesture. I mean, I’m a tea drinker, so everybody who knows, I leave tea cups everywhere. I offer tea. There’s tea everywhere. I found tea bags in the bottom of [00:20:00] my backpack all the time. So that’s a whole other story.

But there is something around putting yourself. Even on the priority list. 

Bronte Taylor: Absolutely. Oh, I feel like I could spend a whole episode just on this question around putting yourself first as a mother and the uncomfortability that comes with that and the guilt that comes with it as well. There is a few points that I would like to touch on.

Firstly, again, we know that there’s like all these different things happening with Trence that are ongoing. They’ve started at conception and are still going as your years into postpartum where we are connected to this little human that needs us and. That is really hard when we have this connection, this human that needs us to consider even putting ourselves first.

And we’re told this through just comments and stories [00:21:00] and things that we consume online as well, that, that the baby is number one, it is the priority. So when we get that messaging over our life, it is really hard to. Shift that or know what it looks like to also honor yourself at the same time. I learned a lot about this when I did my motherhood studies practitioner training with Dr.

Sophie Brock, and one of the things that. Really stood out to me in this was the societal expectations of mothers and the rules of motherhood that are often unspoken. I hadn’t heard of these before. I did this training, but gosh, I knew them as soon as I was told them. I was like, oh yeah, that’s a little undercurrent in my life that I believe for some reason, and those rules can really put us in.

A good and bad binary of motherhood. You know, if a [00:22:00] mother is honoring herself and doing what she needs to do, maybe she’s a bad mom or not as good as a mom because a good mom would give her everything to the baby. There’s other narratives, such as the perfect mother myth again, where. You are to be perfect in every aspect of being a mom, not struggling emotionally or with sleep deprivation.

Have a very happy baby. Be looking good yourself, and enjoying all aspects of motherhood, which is just simply not the case. There’s the intensive mother rules or stories where to be a good mum, you do have to give all your time. To the baby. So I think when we have these narratives, these expectations that are really strong, it can feel impossible to go against them.

And I think a lot of women don’t wanna cause ripples or further hardships maybe for themselves or [00:23:00] their family. And we believe that just by going along with these narratives is what’s gonna. Make this a good experience. Where I’ve found it is, um, it is quite the opposite. And to go up against these good mother, bad mother narratives, this perfect mother myth is actually very empowering in my trence.

But I wanna mention a book that I’m reading at the moment because I think this, for me, it’s a book I’ve read recently and I really strongly connected to a part of it, which I think talks to this. Putting yourself first in motherhood. It’s a book called If Women Rose, rooted by Sharon Blackie, and in one of the chapters she speaks to this natural spring, this natural Well that provides clean and fresh water for all of those around them.

But in it, she also speaks to the well or the spring needing to be maintained. And when I was reading this, I was like, oh, the mother [00:24:00] is the spring. She gives this fresh, clean life, giving, supportive, healing, liquid water to all those around her, her children, her family, her communities, but also somebody needs to take care of her and it should not rest on just the shoulders.

Of herself to do so. I think if we were told maybe more of these stories that to know that we are deserving to be looked after too, and that we should be cared for, whether it be our mental health, our physical health, and as you said, maybe being tended to being made a cup of tea when someone can read throughout.

Oh, no, no, that’s fine. Being offered that and made that still in a space being held for us, how beautiful that experience can be. How like a deep sigh, deep breath that is to, for somebody to actually just be like, oh no, I’ll, I’ll make you one. You might want it, and [00:25:00] if you don’t, that’s okay, but here it is.

And how when you’re at a point where you are depleted or tired, that that compassion from others can just support also the compassion towards yourself as well. If those around you are saying, no, you do deserve a cup, or Go have a lay down, it’s okay. Or I’m bringing over a meal, we can go, oh, yeah, I, I do need that too.

Yeah. Thank you. And we’re able to sit with that. 

Marie Vakakis: How can someone start doing that without guilt? Taking over? What? Where does someone start? It’s a good question. 

Bronte Taylor: I think it is a journey, and this is where I think it is really important for mothers to have that community around them. Whether it is professionals in this space like me and you, Marie, or whether it’s trusted family and friends where we can have honest.

Conversations and be met with [00:26:00] understanding instead of, I guess that that idea that we need to be fixed. I think for my own journey, I experienced a lot of guilt when I left my daughter with my husband and did things that felt really good for me, and I remember the biggest thing that helped was practicing that self-compassion.

Learning what self-compassion is, how to integrate it into my daily life, and how to start changing the narrative that was in my mind, where a little critic voice would pop up and say, you should have picked up on that. You should have noticed that. And then really training and strengthening this compassionate side of myself to come in and say, Bronte, you’re tied to, it’s okay.

Take a breath. You’re a good mom, whatever the words were, that felt good for me and sharing that I’m in an incredible relationship and I could share a lot with my partner, [00:27:00] how I was feeling, and he would often kind of say those compassionate words to me. He’d be like, you know that, that’s okay. You know that you’re tied to, you know, you just need to sit and have a cup of tea.

Things will be okay. Everything will be okay. And I know it sounds simple, but it is that self-compassion and motherhood is so powerful and it really combats guilt because we are offering a different perspective to ourselves. 

Marie Vakakis: I love that and I talk a lot about self-compassion and I’ll pop a, a link in the show notes to Kristen Neff’s website.

There’s some really beautiful self-compassion things there and, and the books you’ve mentioned. How do you, I mean, this is a really tricky thing where, like you said, lots of things can be true at once and you have a little human whose life depends on you. They need to be a priority and it doesn’t mean.

You [00:28:00] have no needs at all. And so how do people start to find that balance of when they can say no and sit with the discomfort of someone else being disappointed? And so this is, when I talk about boundaries, this is the nuanced thing people really struggle with is, but that’s just my boundary and that the boundary’s on you to enforce.

And they are allowed to be disappointed and that can still be your boundary. And I see a real people pleasing, self-sacrificing part or schema start to pop up. That seems to make that even harder for some people. 

Bronte Taylor: Absolutely. You mentioned before around like the experiences or memories that we have in our childhood and adolescence and how that when we become a parent, they, similar patterns might show back up and that people pleasing and [00:29:00] self-sacrificing one are really big in parenting in motherhood and it is really hard to rewrite.

That narrative. There are lots of resources out there that do build on, I guess, building self-awareness and understanding or being able to identify your patterns, what’s triggering you, whether it’s somebody saying like, oh, I really need your help, and that triggering a almost automatic response of being like, oh yeah, yeah, of course.

And this is where I always go back to. I guess what I always like to support Mothers in is reconnecting with their values and their boundaries and really making sure that there’s an understanding that these things change and boundaries and our values are not kind of set in stone. They are fluid and it is okay for us to change them.

I can have a different boundary every day, and that is okay, and [00:30:00] I really like linking our boundaries to our values because it almost. Gives us a bit of a compass, and I love to speak about our circles of control, where there is a circle in the middle and that is you. Everything that you can control, so the things you think, feel how you behave, what you say to others.

And then there is a wider circle outside of that one that is someone else’s circle of control. We can control what’s in our circle. We cannot control what is in theirs, so we cannot control how they feel, what they think, what they say. The two circles influence each other, but at the end of the day, we cannot decide how that person’s gonna respond to it if they are upset, as you said, by a boundary that we put in place that is not ours to hold.

And that in itself can be a huge learning. And needing a huge relearning happening as well. But I often will print the two [00:31:00] circles out for mothers, but also for other clients that are sitting with this self-sacrificing or people pleasing to just really almost like redefine themselves and others to separate the two.

Because what is good for me might not be good for somebody else, and it doesn’t have to be. And so I, I think those are often. The threads. I like to explore or go down with others when these old patterns, or maybe not old, but maybe unhelpful patterns are now showing up in their parenting. 

Marie Vakakis: That’s really lovely and I, I do love the circle of control.

I do that as well. I 

Bronte Taylor: mean, 

Marie Vakakis: you’ve had a lot of exposure through your work and through your, the courses you’ve done and the reading. If you could give listeners maybe one piece of advice for those who are on the journey of resins and maybe one for their loved ones, what would you say? Where would you start?

Bronte Taylor: That is a very good question. I [00:32:00] think for the individuals going through. Mare essence, I would maybe say to them, your feelings are valid. You can be seen and heard by others, and I think, I feel like I could go into so much more, but just mindful of time. I think I would, I would wanna leave them with that.

That your, yeah. That your feelings and and experiences are valid. And that maybe I see you. I understand. And I think two others I would say to carry on with the themes that we’ve touched on today, Marie, around. Just listen. Really listen. Don’t jump into fix, explain or downplay someone’s experiences. Don’t jump in with those, at least statements, like at least the baby is healthy, [00:33:00] at least you’re alive.

Those things can be really invalidating and really dismissing. So I think my suggestions would, or invitation, I guess, to people supporting those going through MAF since would just be too. Respond to their stories with things like that sounds really hard. I’m sorry you experienced that. You’re allowed to grieve and that might be the birth that they didn’t have or did have, or the friendships that have changed and to offer that practical support like you made that cup of tea.

That is such a beautiful way to hold somebody. So making a cup, taking them over food, popping on a load of washing while you’re at their house, those acts can really help reduce that feeling of isolation. 

Marie Vakakis: One of the things I teach my couples is to ask hug, herd, or help, and [00:34:00] even asking because most of the time it’s.

Not to fix it, and I’ve had so many conversations on the podcast about not trying to fix it, but hug, heard or help, and that can make such a difference. 

Bronte Taylor: Yes. I love that so much. I’ve heard different variations of this and, and I use one with my husband as well, where it’s like, yeah, do you wanna be listened to or do you want solutions?

And it is a thread I’m noticing from today is all around like communication and how much our language can support our experiences and our relationships. And just being able to say. Or I, yeah, I need a hug, can make such a difference because it lets each other know what we’re actually needing from a moment that might feel so hard to articulate what emotion we’re feeling or what sensations are going on in our body.

That to be able to communicate through three very easy words is so powerful. 

Marie Vakakis: [00:35:00] Yeah, it really is. And if people want to reach out to you, I’ll put links to everything in the show notes, but tell people how they can work with you or find you connect with you. 

Bronte Taylor: Yeah. The best way to connect with me would be through Instagram, so at Bronte Heartfelt Therapy.

Another place to find me would be through Center Self Collective. You can search them on the web@justwww.center self.com au. Those are the two places I am most active. I am so passionate about motherhood and postpartum and birth trauma and. Yeah, I would love for people to connect with me on there. Don’t feel afraid to just send me a dm.

Um, I’ll always get back to you and yeah, just get to know you. I love that. 

Marie Vakakis: Excellent. And I’ll put a link to some of the books that you’ve mentioned as well and some of the resources you’ve shared in the show notes. And hopefully people take away something [00:36:00] from this conversation that fits in very well with this complex life because it’s not.

Simple, quick fix. There’s no simple solution. It’s really in listening, wrestling with different kind of parts, and it requires a lot of nuance, I think. 

Bronte Taylor: Absolutely. I completely agree. Thanks so much, Bronte. Thank you so much for having me. It’s been really beautiful to talk about this topic with you.

Marie Vakakis: Thank you for listening to keep the Conversation going. Head on over to Instagram or LinkedIn and follow me if you’d like to keep updated with episodes and other interesting things happening in mental health. Join my Weekly, this Complex Life newsletter where I’ll share tools, tips, and insights. There’s a link in the show notes.

Got a question you want answered, ship me an email or a dm. I’d love to hear from you and if you enjoy the show, I’d really appreciate it if you could leave a rating and a review. It helps other people find the [00:37:00] podcast.