Marie Vakakis: [00:00:00] Talking about sex can feel incredibly awkward, especially with someone you love. Maybe you’ve been avoiding it for a while. Maybe every attempt to bring it up just turns into tension. Shut down, or silence when sex feels mismatched, emotionally loaded, or just off.

It’s easy to spiral into shame and start wondering if something’s wrong with you, with them, or maybe the relationship. In a previous episode, I unpack some of the big myths and pressures around sex in long-term relationships. I’ll pop a link to that in the show note. So think about this as like episode part two of that conversation.

We have these ideas that, you know, sex should be spontaneous or that desire should be spontaneous or that frequency somehow equals relationship health. If you haven’t listened to that one yet, I’d recommend starting there. This one will follow on nicely from there, but today I’m unpacking where I left off in that episode.

’cause there is so much more to say in this episode we’re talking about, or I’m talking about the uncomfortable but important space where sex meets [00:01:00] emotion. The feelings of rejection, the pressure to perform, the fear that wanting less or more means something’s broken, and the challenge of reconnecting when you feel miles apart in the bedroom.

I’ll talk about how shame and some gendered experiences can shape desire, how to rebuild closeness without pressure, and why seeking support isn’t a last resort. It can be one of the healthiest steps you take if sex has become something that you tiptoe around, avoid, or feel unsure about how to talk about.

Then this episode’s for you. Let’s have that conversation. Without blame, without shame and just honesty and care, and maybe a little relief that you’re not the only one. Sex is emotional, not just physical. And it can be loaded with meaning, meaning about closeness, about rejection, about self-worth or connection.

And it sometimes can reflect what’s going on outside the bedroom. I talked a little bit about, um, accelerators and breaks in the last episode referencing some of the work from Emily NGO’s book. Come as you are. Excellent book. I really recommend it, [00:02:00] but it can reflect what happens outside the bedroom, not just within the relationship.

So there can be relationship stress and communication patterns, unmet emotional needs, but it can also be your general levels of stress or being touched out if you’ve got little kids. I know a lot of the, the female partners that I work with in particular, if they’re. They’re breastfeeding and they’ve got really little ones that are crawling on them, needing comfort from them, needing to feed off them.

They just, they don’t wanna be touched at all. Their body just needs a break. They just, they don’t want any more touch. So there can be a lot happening outside the bedroom that comes into that space. And so sometimes a sex issue is, is not just, it’s not actually about sex. It could be that other things are happening in the relationship and there are so many emotional layers that show up in the bedroom and people can react in in really big ways or can really shut down when they.

Sex kind of becomes an awkward thing to talk about. They can think, oh, my partner doesn’t love me. They don’t design me, they don’t want me. [00:03:00] And then they might turn away, withdraw, and that can further exacerbate it. And one of the biggest things I see here, I. Is if one partner doesn’t want sex for whatever reason, it could be a medication side effect.

It could be that it has been painful. Maybe they’re not in the mood, they start to pull away from other physical contact because they think, well, if I, it’s been a while since we’ve had sex, and if I hug my partner and I kiss them. They’re gonna think that that’s a green light for sex or I don’t wanna lead them on.

And so then they start to withdraw even more and miss out on all that other touch. They don’t know how to. Talk about, I had to say, look, I’m not, I’m not in the mood for anything more than, fooling around with our clothes on, or we can have a shower together, but I’m just not up for, for any sort of, any sex or I’m happy to make out, but that’s all I have.

So they, they pull away from things and that can leave the partner feeling confused, hurt, rejected, unsure about what went wrong. They might feel like, am I [00:04:00] being needy or clingy or desperate? I just want a hug, or I want some affection. And this can be this huge, awkward, painful elephant in the room that people don’t know how to talk about.

And so if that’s something that you are thinking about. It might be worth getting a little bit of help about how to have that conversation, how to overt that that’s what’s happening for you because it’s so hard to then withdraw all the other affection and tenderness and companionship that you might otherwise have because you’re scared that it might let the other might lead the other person on, or it might lead to something that you’re not in the mood for.

And you know, with sex consensual enthusiastic sex, enthusiastic consent. You can withdraw that at any time. And so a kiss, a hug, a, a pinch on the butt, a shower together, making out it does not mean it has to go any further. All of those things can be complete on their own. There is so much shame, , around rejection.

There can be a lot of shame around how much or [00:05:00] how little people want sex. If their partner wants more than them, they might feel broken. And there’s all these cultural messages around men, you know. Are constantly ready and women have to be effortlessly available. And there’s, you know, myths about being the low desire partner and how that can leave you feeling like a failure.

There are so many expectations here that can really have a negative impact on people. And so when I work with couples and we’re talking about sex, sometimes I give them questions to think about, like, how does shame and general shape. The way that they view desire. Have they even thought about that? What are some of the assumptions they make about their partner?

And this can be in heterosexual, cisgender relationships or same sex relationships or polyamorous relationships. Thinking about all those expectations and assumptions we have about sex. What are some of the common beliefs that you have to unlearn? Or what are those common beliefs? You know, do people have beliefs around men are always eager and ready.

And so if he’s rejecting me [00:06:00] that there’s something wrong, or if she’s enjoying sex and she must, there must be something wrong with her. Like, I’ve heard all of these myths that are very gendered and you know, come with such judgment and can really impact a person’s self-esteem and confidence and they don’t know what’s quote normal and.

There’s so much variety in, in sex and sexual pleasure and desire and relationships. There’s almost no normal, um, there’s some healthy dynamics and unhealthy things, and we’ve got things like power and control and, and definitely things that are not okay. And then there is this whole smorgasbord of things that are valid and fine and normal and healthy and different, and that’s okay.

And so. Talking about it is really hard, and I made a comment in a previous episode that, you know, if, if we can’t talk about it, maybe we shouldn’t have it. And my podcast guest was like, well, then nobody would be having sex. And they’re probably right. But we need to get better at having these conversations.

We need [00:07:00] to know what feels good for us, because how do we know what feels good? How do we know what doesn’t feel good? If we dunno what feels good, how do we know what boundaries to say of things we wanna try and things we might wanna explore?

And how to ask for what we need and for what we want and what we desire. It’s really important to know that because our partners don’t automatically just know what we like and it sets them up to fail without being able to say that, to talk about it. It’s hard, it’s awkward. I get it, and it is so beneficial when you can have those conversations.

So how do you rekindle without pressure? Look, intimacy can start small, cuddling, affection, time spending, close with that expectation. And if you’ve identified some of the patterns in your relationship, like I mentioned earlier, that there’s, you know, this awkwardness and you’ve started to withdraw because you don’t wanna lead them on.

And if you’re worried, if you give them a kiss, then they’re gonna think that that means a green light for sex and talk about it. Take sex off the table. [00:08:00] Define what sex is. Is it penetrative sex? Is it oral sex? Like, talk about what does that mean? And then say, look, I’m not ready for X, Y, Z, or This has actually been causing me some pain.

Or the medication that I’m taking is meant this isn’t gonna be working for me. Or I’m going through perimenopause and my hormones are all outta the pla all over the place. And you know, things hurt that that didn’t use to hurt. So I want to take this off the table for now, but all these other things are okay.

I love cuddling you, touching, you, kissing, you, making out. I’d wanna, you know, find out what we can do together that feels good for you and pleasurable. Like talk about what’s. On the menu, what is available. Use your imagination. It doesn’t have to be, you know, penis in vagina sex. There are so many times that I have conversations with couples about trying to bust this myth that sex looks a certain way.

It doesn’t have to look a certain way. There is so much variety, you know, you can use. Fingers. There’s oral sex, there are toys, there is mutual masturbation. There are all sorts [00:09:00] of things that can be exciting, can be fulfilling, can be connecting sexually or just romantically. Touch, affection. There’s all these different things that you can do, so have a conversation about it.

And the Gottman have a really great app. You can download it. I think it’s called the Love Deck or the Gottman card deck. You’ll see it. And it comes up with like, it’s a little pink background with a couple of love hearts and there are some question decks in there. So there’s like the different levels of spicy.

So one spicy, two spicy, three spicy. You can go through those and ask each other those questions. And then there are some general questions on relationship on sex. Um, and they’re fantastic cards. They’re kind of awkward, so don’t make the mistake of doing it, um, at restaurants with a couple or someone else on the table next to you ’cause it’ll get a little bit awkward.

I am talking from experience. I pulled some of those cards out once and was like, how do we have this already awkward conversation? Kind of really quietly, because there’s a couple right there. So save it for a [00:10:00] place where you’ve got some privacy, um, or where someone doesn’t, cons, isn’t having to concentrate really hard, like you don’t wanna throw them this awkward, curly question when they’re driving.

I have also done that. Please don’t, it’s not great. Those be really, really amazing. And I’ll pop a link to a resource that you can download from my website that has a few other questions and prompts around sex. And if you’re interested in learning a little bit more about rekindling your relationship, there is an on-demand couples therapy kind of relationship refresh course that, um, is a kind of general course, but it might help you have some awkward conversations or appeal linked to that as well in the show notes.

So how can you connect without pressure? Have a think about that. What feels good? What do you like? And in the Gottman training that I did, and the, the couples therapy modality that I use mostly is, that’s the Gottman um, method. They talk a lot about bids for connection as being one of the most fundamental.

I guess predictors of a happy relationship. And that is those little moments of, um, connection that [00:11:00] we say. So it could be saying something like, oh, look at that bird out the window. Or you might be laughing at something that you’re reading in the newspaper. If anyone still reads newspapers anymore, I.

It’s all these little comments that people make, and you can respond to that in a number of ways. You can positively respond, be like, oh, hey, yeah, what? That’s a really cool bird. Or, oh, what’s what? What are you finding interesting? In that newspaper article, you can respond negatively. Like, don’t bother me, I’m busy.

Or you can ignore it. The couples who turn towards those bids positively more often have. Better relationships. And this doesn’t just work for couples, this works for parents with their children as well. So responding to those bids for connection, they might seem irrelevant or random to you, but that is a bid for connection with with you.

So keep an eye on those because those bids for connection, those little moments to check in, to Attune to connect can help with your overall relationship health. They can lead towards improving your sex life. There is a bit of research that [00:12:00] talks about a good quality friendship, also leading to a good quality sex life.

And that comes from being able to feel heard and understood and validated and to be able to talk about hard things.

I invite you to have a conversation about what does. Nonsexual intimacy look like for you? How do you like to feel connected without the pressure of anything else? And how can you let your partner know if maybe you’re interested in a little bit more and that not feel rejecting, like these are conversations that happen.

Often, frequently for the duration of your relationship. They’re not just one-off conversations. These need to keep happening all the time. And some people think, oh, why can’t things just be easy? Shouldn’t we just know this? No, we don’t. And a good relationship, a solid relationship, has lots of conversations, frequently ongoing.

They stay in constant dialogue. It’s really, really important.

So when do you go to therapy? A lot of people ask this, like, at what point do we go to therapy? Do we need a sex therapist? Do we need a relationship therapist? And it really [00:13:00] depends. Everybody has different ways of working, different things that they specialise in.

And one of the most common things I see is waiting. I. Way too long wait until things are really, really hard and we get inquiries of people saying, you know, we’ve been together 10 years, 15 years, and we need therapy now, like this week. And people have left it so late and there’s so much pressure on therapy as a process of fixing all of these things.

So if you leave it really long, it’s, it’s hard. And you might not get the results as quickly as you need. And it might take a few years to untangle what might’ve taken years to get to that point. So therapy can be really helpful, but the earlier you get support, the better that it can be, the better the outcomes, I think, anyway.

, Because once we get into these patterns where resentment and contempt can build up, and the relationship moves into a negative sentiment override, and I’ll talk about that in another episode. It can be. It can be really hard. It’s not impossible. Definitely not impossible. But if you are [00:14:00] thinking we could use a bit of a tune up, we might need a bit of support, have a look around for some therapists that might be able to work with the things that you’re worried about and take it from there.

That could be a very good start. It’s just telling your partner, Hey, I am struggling. Um, I feel like sometimes there are some things I find difficult to talk about. Perhaps we could see someone together. What do you think? And be really clear about it because, and I’ve mentioned this in other episodes, if you say something like, oh hey, um, do you feel like gonna, couples therapy?

You can be like, ah, no. But if you say something like, I’m struggling, I really wanna do better, or I wanna do different, or sometimes I get so tangled and caught up in my thoughts that I say the wrong thing and I really want to find some support, someone that we can speak to together. To have these conversations, would it be okay if I rung a few people and found some availability or, here are two people.

I found that one office is online, one office is face to face. What do you think? Coming at it as a request is very different than saying, saying it awkwardly and not being really clear [00:15:00] or criticising the other person saying, why haven’t you organised therapy? Well, if you’ve got the problem, you know, blah, blah, blah.

Coming at it with what you need, with what you want. What would be helpful to you can change the direction of that conversation. So therapy can be really helpful to unpack some of those patterns, to create some emotional safety and to have some support to have those awkward conversations. To bring out some of that information to maybe u understand what some of those myths and misconceptions are that you hold as an individual or as a couple, and some of those unhelpful patterns or that awkward dance that you might have gotten yourself into that leaves you both feeling unhappy or unsatisfied.

I’ve done a whole bunch of episodes around relationships and couples therapy. So have a look at those and see if there’s anything in there that you think, oh, that would be helpful for my partner. There’s a few videos up on YouTube as well. Slowly building up that catalog.

But talking about sex doesn’t have to be awkward, . We are getting better at it and taking it one step at a time. Have a think about those myths and misconceptions and lemme know.

So [00:16:00] hopefully that’s given you a few extra things to think about. I do have some more episodes that I wanna record. Over the coming weeks and months about similar topics. So if you’ve actually got a question that you want answered, if there’s an idea you have for the podcast, please get in touch. I would love to hear from you.

It can be anonymous. You can send me a voice memo. There’s a form you can fill out. There’ll be a link in the show notes or on my website, marievakakis.com au. And for all therapy inquiries, check out the therapy hub.com au as well. Hope you enjoyed this episode of this Complex Life.