[00:00:00] Ron Souers: You know, in recovery, they call that process instead of emotional dysregulation. They call it internal unmanageability. And a lot of it was focused on trying to get better with that. And like that was like, I’m bad at that and I’m broken, or there’s something wrong with me that I can’t manage my own life.

[00:00:27] Ron Souers: But it actually made that sense because, you know, it was just the way that my brains developed every other day was just like, I’m never good enough. Like I’ve never measure up nothing that I do. Is ever going to be good enough, you know, and I won’t know when it is. And, you know, that’s difficult. That was difficult for me to, to want to continue to be better because, you know, a lot of it was hard.

[00:00:57] Ron Souers: And I found my therapist that I actually work with [00:01:00] today. And um, you know, one of the first things that really stood out to me was he said that this can actually be a strength. And I was like, really? I just could not believe that I felt broken. I felt like I’m one of those. It was elating, but also like after that it worn off.

[00:01:21] Ron Souers: I just was confused. I wanted to fix it, like I thought it could be fixed, and I did everything in my power to do that. That’s why I was so gung ho to do all the things that he wanted me to do. 

[00:01:34] Marie Vakakis: Welcome to this Complex Life podcast, Ron. 

[00:01:37] Ron Souers: Yeah, thank you for having me. It’s a, it’s a pleasure and an honor to share this space with you.

[00:01:42] Marie Vakakis: So tell the listeners a little bit about your podcast and who you are and why you are doing what you’re doing. 

[00:01:49] Ron Souers: Yeah, definitely. So my podcast is called Don’t Mind Me, I just have a DHD and it’s, you know, a bit of a labor of love. Like, [00:02:00] um, it’s kind of grown on me. What I originally started it and intended it to be was, you know, a mental health podcast and I was super excited about that.

[00:02:10] Ron Souers: I made, uh, like I actually got this book, it’s called Batman and Psychology, and I was like, man, this is so awesome. Like. I can put Batman and have all these actors and stuff on there. And you know, that book is actually not as, like, it’s a good book, but it, it, I thought it would be like a lot more exciting.

[00:02:30] Ron Souers: It just goes delves into like, you know, like the, the therapist level book study of like Batman and like what this is and you know, it was interesting but I really like understood that I needed to be more. ’cause mental health is so broad and like a DHD is something that I know about and I could specialise in talking about, especially in the workplace.

[00:02:54] Ron Souers: So I wanted to have something that really kind of had the focus on [00:03:00] tips and strategies to, um, really help. People, you know, like myself, like that I wish was out there and more readily available to, you know, navigate that space, which it often intersects with life. So like a lot of it, it has to do with the preparation for work.

[00:03:22] Ron Souers: ’cause how we show up for work is like. It has a lot to do with how we prepare the before we come to work or even how we went to sleep. So it was a lot of stuff that I was implementing in my life that I just wanted to kind of share and then get more, um, like. Educated or professional guest on my podcast.

[00:03:46] Ron Souers: So it’s been amazing. Like I’ve had a lot of people on there that I never would’ve met if I didn’t start the podcast and you know, I’m continuing to, to grow and learn from it as well. 

[00:03:58] Marie Vakakis: That’s really cool. I have the [00:04:00] same feeling as some of these conversations were things I wanted to talk about and then it became something I could share with people.

[00:04:06] Marie Vakakis: So I definitely understand that one of the. Thing I see for folks when they get diagnosed with A DHD as adults is there’s like something clicks or they have a lot of these aha moments about all these other parts of their life leading up to that, whether it’s personal life or work. I mean, is that something that you’ve experienced or you’ve seen with the folks that you’ve been interviewing or talking with?

[00:04:33] Ron Souers: Oh yeah, definitely. There’s been so many like, oh man, that’s why I do that. Like I, I would say, I remember like reading this book, it’s like your A DHD brain is not broken or I can never remember this book for the life of me. So you can tell I already have a DHD. So the thing with that is like that book talked about, you know, emotional dysregulation.

[00:04:59] Ron Souers: And [00:05:00] one of the things in that book was like comparing each brain, like especially the prefrontal cortex, which is the part that functions around the executive decisions like planning, getting up, making it to doctor’s appointments, different things like that. So that part of the brain has been underdeveloped for most people with A DHD.

[00:05:23] Ron Souers: So. What she compared that part of the brain to is like an old butler who’s like, Hey, you know, if you’re trying to remember your keys, like yeah, you left them over there on the counter, you know, right in front. But it’s like that part of the brain. It doesn’t work for us. Like it’s more, sounds like an angry neighbor yelling over a fence.

[00:05:47] Ron Souers: Like, you idiot. Like, how could you have forgotten your keys? You, you don’t, don’t even remember. Like what kind of like, that’s how we remember stuff. And I was like, yeah, like that makes so much [00:06:00] sense because that’s like, that’s really how my brain was operating. And a lot of it goes back to like that addiction and.

[00:06:09] Ron Souers: You know, in recovery they call that process instead of emotional dysregulation. They call it internal unmanageability. So it was like, wow, like, and a lot of it was focused on trying to get better with that. And like that was like, I’m bad at that and I’m broken, or there’s something wrong with me that I can’t manage my own life.

[00:06:33] Ron Souers: But it actually made. That sense because you know, it was just the way that my brains developed and that I’m more sensitive because I’m coming out of that emotional side of the brain. So that made a lot of sense to me at that point. 

[00:06:50] Marie Vakakis: Well, that’s such a difficult internal dialogue to be living with sometimes.

[00:06:55] Marie Vakakis: That sort of, yeah, you, not the polite, helpful [00:07:00] butler, but the angry neighbor. I mean, that’s, that’s kind of like living with the bully almost in your brain all the time. 

[00:07:06] Ron Souers: Yeah, definitely. And, and, and, yeah. A lot of my thoughts were like, you idiot, you’re just so stupid. Or like, how could you have done that again?

[00:07:16] Ron Souers: It was very negative and aggressive and what really helped was. Like understanding that my brain was just doing this to protect me, like it understood like how I feel when I get things wrong, and like how the world had treated me when I, you know, didn’t show up or I forgot something or, and it didn’t make any sense why I continued to forget things.

[00:07:41] Ron Souers: You know, it wasn’t until like I started understanding that and started giving myself space for forgetting stuff. I would be like, instead of, I began to slowly over time to say, Hey, you know, if I forgot something that I normally forget, I’d be like, yeah, that happened. So, okay. [00:08:00] It’s, I’m surprised it didn’t happen more, you know, and instead of, you know, calling myself an idiot and like, yeah, it comes here and there, but it’s, it’s like the internal dialogue that I allow myself to talk to myself in, you know, and that, that came through therapy that came through, like wanting to be better to myself and, and self-love, which took time because like those thoughts just don’t.

[00:08:28] Ron Souers: Go away, even though you see them that way. 

[00:08:31] Marie Vakakis: Yeah. I love that self-compassion piece, and once you start to understand that that’s how your brain works, you can stop seeing it as somehow broken or, or not enough. 

[00:08:43] Ron Souers: Yeah, definitely. 

[00:08:45] Marie Vakakis: You kind of, I mean, you refer to. An A DHD brain is a, maybe like a different operating system.

[00:08:51] Marie Vakakis: And I love that because sometimes that’s what I use with clients where I’m like, it’s like being a, a PC in a Mac world where everything is Apple and you are just on windows. Yeah. And [00:09:00] there’s just these communication glitches or something’s just don’t work the same way. How did defining it that way shift your perspective or help you understand?

[00:09:11] Marie Vakakis: Your own, I guess, operating system. 

[00:09:14] Ron Souers: Yeah, it was, um, and, and, and I liked that Apple and, and Mac. No, the Apple and pc, you know, windows still works like, and it works great and I’m, I’m more of like a Windows guy, so it kind of makes sense that that correlation. But, um. It came from this idea that it was like we’re just wired different, you know?

[00:09:37] Ron Souers: And it, it’s kind of hard to imagine that ’cause we can’t really see the brain and it’s all the connections that go on. But like once I started like really developing that and understanding like. Like I said, understanding like parts of the brain just weren’t developed. Right. Or you know, it was a chemical imbalance.

[00:09:55] Ron Souers: You know, it’s like this interface. So our interface doesn’t really [00:10:00] work a lot with how the world is designed and I feel like most people don’t anyways, especially for us, like when it comes to like learning stuff and I had to really. You know, ’cause it would take me a long time to get certain things and I would feel like I’m just slow or, or dumb.

[00:10:20] Ron Souers: Like when it was actually like, there was a lot of things that I did get and I was really good at, and especially like art and being able to write and like, you know, I am like kind of a, a rapper. So like, you know, that takes a certain amount of. Intelligence and talent, you know, to be able to put words together and see that that way.

[00:10:43] Ron Souers: So I started looking at it more of like, since it did take me a while and I would normally have to like learn my learning style was different or is it just more like I can read something but I have to write it down and like reread it in order to like really [00:11:00] get it. So I looked like really compared it to a.

[00:11:05] Ron Souers: High definition printer, it takes longer, but the images are so much like, there’s so much more definition when it comes to those images and, and it’s not that it’s a better like image it per se, but it’s just got more, it’s more in depth and it has a different perspective about how that same image looks and, and that, that helped me to under, you know, to really.

[00:11:34] Ron Souers: Take myself and be okay with that type of learning process and that it’s actually like I, I like that, you know, once I get all the pieces together, it’s like I can see it and it just starts to just come together in such a crazy way. 

[00:11:50] Marie Vakakis: Yeah, I love that. It’s a very interesting example because if we think about evolution, the brain, this would’ve had to have served a [00:12:00] function to still exist.

[00:12:01] Marie Vakakis: It would have to have been to serve us somehow. And so for some people to think that way, to piece things together differently, to see. Different details is a valuable skillset, but sometimes the environment doesn’t allow for it or value it or is conducive to it. Like there’s something in the en in the environment.

[00:12:21] Marie Vakakis: It’s that social model of disability. That’s the impact. 

[00:12:24] Ron Souers: Yeah, definitely. The and, and I love how you put it, the environment. It’s always the environment, like, you know, you put us, it depends on the environment you put us in. Like it’s. Just like an octopus. You know, if you put it in the water, it’s great, it’s amazing.

[00:12:40] Ron Souers: But you take it out and it’s gonna struggle. Like you put us in like a classroom with watching videos and like, or even just listening to a teacher rattle on about something that we’re not even interested in. That’s not even gonna help us. And you don’t even tell us really why? And we have to sit there for [00:13:00] eight hours.

[00:13:01] Ron Souers: Like, that’s terrible. Especially if your mind’s going a thousand miles an hour. You’re a kid, you’re creative, you’re told to stifle that. Like it’s an amazing suppression of talent, of potential, you know? And these system is just. You know, not all systems are are that way, but the majority of them do not really foster that potential in cultivating people to really explore who they are and.

[00:13:31] Ron Souers: Challenge the system and to make it better, you know, for everyone. 

[00:13:35] Marie Vakakis: When I, I mean, I see this in teenagers as well as adults, but I think adults have had a longer exposure to this. So a lot of the adults that I work with who have A DHD or A DHD is, have a long history of being told, like, you’re lazy. Just try harder.

[00:13:52] Marie Vakakis: Stop being so, you know, whatever. Did you have those messages growing up? 

[00:13:58] Ron Souers: You know, I, I really didn’t think [00:14:00] that. You know, maybe it was, it was a little bit in there, but I think that the major message that, you know, really resonated with me was, you know, my dad’s just lack of approval. That struck, you know, ’cause I remember, you know, my mom, she was telling me that, you know, she saw me always try my best to like, win my dad’s approval and, and try to make him proud.

[00:14:24] Ron Souers: And it always fell short. I can remember that it was like all I wanted to hear from my dad was that he was proud of me and I’ve got that like, you know, a couple times growing up and one of them was when I graduated high school, you know, I was like, he, he gave me a hug, which was rare. And he said he was proud of me ’cause I was the only one in his family to ever graduate from high school.

[00:14:50] Ron Souers: And that meant everything that day. But it was just like every other day. Was just like, I’m never good enough. Like I’ve never measure [00:15:00] up. Nothing that I do is ever going to be good enough, you know, and I won’t know when it is. And, you know, that’s difficult. That was difficult for me to, to want to continue to be better because, you know, a lot of it was hard, a lot of it with school was, was incredibly difficult.

[00:15:21] Ron Souers: I had a tough time making friends. I often spent a lot of time, you know, I can remember a lot of times where I would spend time hiding out in the bathroom at school and just thinking, I’m such a loser. It was definitely difficult for me and you know, growing up, like I just adopted this idea of like, I don’t want to be cool.

[00:15:43] Ron Souers: Like I’m cool being a dork. Like I don’t need this social like. I don’t need to be around people. I don’t need that. So it really started developing this toxic, you know, health well coping mechanism that continued to [00:16:00] become, like attract the wrong people. And I ended up getting in into bad romantic relationships, you know, where I was very toxic in those relationships to, you know, because all I knew was like to shut down when things got emotional.

[00:16:16] Ron Souers: I didn’t know how to deal with them because like, that’s all I knew from my dad, and I knew like, because I got hurt, like I wasn’t supposed to show emotions. I was never supposed to admit that I got jealous. You know? All that stuff would get pushed down when it, in actuality it was going on. And I had no way to, to communicate or do anything about that, but use drugs.

[00:16:40] Ron Souers: And I numbed out for so many years with that, you know, so it was, um, you know, that’s definitely a good question that you asked. 

[00:16:49] Marie Vakakis: How did you turn that around or evolve? Just like what changed? How did it change to start navigating all of those [00:17:00] things? Look at workplaces, relationships. Understanding yourself.

[00:17:05] Marie Vakakis: Like there’s actually so much has happened since. 

[00:17:08] Ron Souers: Yeah, definitely. Um, it was a long time. It, it, this stuff doesn’t happen overnight. It’s a lot of hard work, but I, of course when I started doing the work, so. What really helped me to, to realise that I, I needed help was becoming homeless for like, the second time in my life.

[00:17:28] Ron Souers: And, you know, waking up on the Washington Mall in dc, the National Mall, and just like, you know, and, and I, I had a job. And I was like, this isn’t fun anymore. This isn’t the way I wanna live my life. I need help. So I decided to, you know, ask my mom, you know, ’cause she had, they had done like, uh, one of those interventions and.

[00:17:57] Ron Souers: Begged me to go into treatment, but I wasn’t ready [00:18:00] at that time and you know, so I was like, is that still on the table? And I ended up going into this Salvation Army program, which is like, it’s a work therapy program, and ended up going in there for like 23 days. I ended. Getting kicked outta that because, uh, I got into a fight with this guy, but I, I didn’t really initi, I mean, I guess I initiated it.

[00:18:25] Ron Souers: ’cause like I, I walked by him while we were doing, working out on weights, and it was out in Baltimore and he ended up tapping me on the shoulder and punching me in the face, you know, but I didn’t retaliate. I just was like laughing. So I ended up telling one of the. Supervisors or whatever that was there.

[00:18:44] Ron Souers: And like, you know, they had a no fighting policy, so I ended up getting kicked out. So I was really upset with that because like I started developing like relationships in there. But you know, at the same time I had, uh, it was, uh, [00:19:00] cellulitis. So it, I just thought it was a rash and if I didn’t. Get kicked out.

[00:19:05] Ron Souers: I might not have be alive today. So, you know, my mom, who wasn’t even allowing me at her house came and got me, allowed me to stay in there, and I was like, yeah, I want to go to that original place. That treatment center that you guys talked about, do you think that that could happen? So we did all the work.

[00:19:25] Ron Souers: I went into that treatment center and you know, I was just scared for my life, you know, because like I had like used in between there. And I’m glad that that happened because like it was literally like the last time and I didn’t even enjoy it. Like it was terrible because like all the trust that I had built up was just gone and I felt so bad.

[00:19:49] Ron Souers: It, it just, I didn’t enjoy it the way that I used to. And I knew and I was, that’s what I’m saying. I’m happy that I had that experience. ’cause like I know what it’s like to go [00:20:00] back and like. I don’t wanna lose any of that stuff. Like I love the relationships that I built and going through that process of recovery has taught me so much about like foundation, about like that.

[00:20:13] Ron Souers: About humility, like I still have a lot to learn. And you know, the other part of humility, which I’ve, I’m beginning to learn more, is like that, that I do know a lot, that I do have a lot of experience that I can pass on, you know, so it’s not being completely modest, but it’s in that state like, Hey look, this is where I’m at, like.

[00:20:37] Ron Souers: I’m not an expert, I never will be, but I can always continue to grow. And so throughout that process of like accepting, you know, learning acceptance of who I am on a deeper level, like I was able to finally like understand that I have a DHD because I was like about to get fired because I was hurting [00:21:00] myself.

[00:21:00] Ron Souers: Damaging company property and like taken into the office and they were like, if this happens one more time, you’re gonna get walked out. So I was desperate. So I went to see my, um, general practitioner and was like, yeah, look, I’m, I’m about to get fired. Like I can’t slow down. I need help. What can we do about this?

[00:21:19] Ron Souers: And she kind of didn’t really have an answer, so I was like, maybe I have a DHD. And she didn’t seem like. Too convinced about that. But she gave me a list of therapists and, and psychologists. So I went down that and I found my therapist that I actually work with today. And um, you know, one of the first things that really stood out to me was he said that this can actually be a strength.

[00:21:45] Ron Souers: And I was like, really? I. Could not believe that I felt broken. I felt like I’m one of those. It was elating, but also like after that had worn off. I just was confused. I wanted [00:22:00] to fix it, like I thought it could be fixed, and I did everything in my power to do that. That’s why I was so gung ho to do all the things that he wanted me to do.

[00:22:11] Ron Souers: I ended up almost getting fired again and that’s when really the acceptance like started to like, I started to really understand what acceptance was like on a deep level, accepting that I’m an addict and accepting that I have a DHD and that’s not gonna change. So I stopped trying to fight. I would fix these things or think I’m better than that.

[00:22:32] Ron Souers: I just started to try to understand, well, how can I work with it? How can I try to understand this? You know? Because like all the information that I tried to find, it was like digging for gold. It was hard. It was scattered all over the place. But when I did find it, it was like, yeah, there is stuff out there that explains this on a deeper level, and I believe it’s all out there.

[00:22:55] Ron Souers: And it’s scattered for a reason. So it was like throughout that process [00:23:00] of understanding and you know, I just found so many amazing tools, but I feel like the, the biggest one is the mindset is like understanding that there’s nothing really wrong with me. I’ve just gotta understand who I am and what my boundaries are.

[00:23:18] Marie Vakakis: Yeah, I mean, it’s such an incredible story. There’d be so much we could talk about there. Maybe as a sort of last question to wrap up is, what would you tell your younger self about living with A DHD? If you could go back in time. 

[00:23:34] Ron Souers: Yeah, that’s a good one. I, I would definitely, you know, tell ’em me. It’s okay.

[00:23:38] Ron Souers: It’s okay to be who you are. That it, you know, life is hard for everybody, and you’re not alone in this. If you need to feel sad, feel sad. If you feel depressed, don’t be afraid to talk about it. Find the right people, and that’s gonna be the most important thing for you moving forward is just be okay. You know, [00:24:00] and I’d probably just sit with him while, you know, and hopefully, you know, while he cried or, or got angry or whatever, because I honestly, like, I try to sit with my inner child, so I’m, I’m constantly, you know, a lot talking with.

[00:24:15] Ron Souers: The inner child that’s still dealing with that trauma that’s still processing those emotions and they come up and sometimes they make sense and sometimes, a lot of times they don’t, but they gotta come out and, you know, giving myself the space to do that has been one of the biggest sources of strength and relief because like.

[00:24:37] Ron Souers: It doesn’t matter when they show up. I’ve got the tools, you know, and I’m not trying to run away from them anymore. I’m, I’m like, okay, this is a, this is a chance to get better with that. 

[00:24:48] Marie Vakakis: I love that. I love the sitting with it and holding space instead of trying to fix it. I think that’s a really, 

[00:24:54] Ron Souers: yeah.

[00:24:55] Marie Vakakis: Compassionate thing that maybe your younger self really needed was someone to actually listen and [00:25:00] be there, not try to fix it or kind of tell you what to do. 

[00:25:05] Ron Souers: Yeah, exactly. It’s, you know, it’s all what we all need is just, you know, a lot of the trauma that comes in the world is like, I, I understand through my own trauma is like, it, it just came from a place that I needed some, you know, like what Dr.

[00:25:20] Ron Souers: Gabor Matay calls attunement, you know, and that’s just compassionate sitting, like I said, and, and physical. You know, assurance that things are gonna be okay, that somebody’s here for you, no matter. Like, and, and not trying to, and, and maybe, you know, giving you the tools to get better with it. Yeah. Giving you the hope that it’s okay.

[00:25:45] Marie Vakakis: So if people wanna find out a bit more about you, where can they go? And I’ll put links to all of these in the show notes. So we have your podcast. Don’t mind me, I just have a DHD. You also have a book I saw. [00:26:00] So downloadable. Yeah. 

[00:26:03] Ron Souers: Yeah. Well, you can also find me at the bat cave too. I’m just kidding. So, yeah, let me see.

[00:26:08] Ron Souers: I think I got the book up here. It’s, uh, this self discovery journal and, uh, yeah, it’s got a, like a bunch of prompts for those who appreciate power tool tools. I’ve curated an online ebook version of this, so I’m giving that as a. Complimentary resource that you can access, and you can find that@youradhdguy.com.

[00:26:33] Ron Souers: It’s not just a journal, but a mirror. A way to clarify your vision, reset your compass, and reconnect with who you truly are. And for those individuals who refuse to settle for surface level change and are ready to go deep, I offer my assessment. Pro-social assessment call. So that’s, that’s just a, a way to see if, if we fit together, you know, just kind of, kind of find out [00:27:00] where you’re at on your journey and to see if you know, like I’m a good fit for you.

[00:27:06] Ron Souers: Mm. Because what I wanna do is. Be able to help people in their journey. Get to where I got, you know, in your own way. Because it takes special one-on-one coaching to do that. And if that’s something that you really look you, you just want, you’re tired of living the life that you want and you’re ready to make that change, definitely check that out@youradhdguide.com.

[00:27:31] Marie Vakakis: Fantastic. So I’ll pop links to all of those in the show notes and people can tune in to the next episode where we, we swap sides and I, I’m in the hot seat and we have another conversation about A DHD, but from a therapy point of view. So thanks so much for joining me on this part one episode. 

[00:27:51] Ron Souers: Yeah, it’s been a pleasure.

[00:27:52] Ron Souers: Thank you for having me.

[00:27:58] Marie Vakakis: Thank you for listening to keep [00:28:00] the Conversation going. Head on over to Instagram or LinkedIn and follow me if you’d like to keep updated with episodes and other interesting things happening in mental health. Join my Weekly, this Complex Life newsletter. Where I’ll shared tools, tips, and insights.

[00:28:12] Marie Vakakis: There’s a link in the show notes, got a question you want answered, ship me an email or a dm. I’d love to hear from you and if you enjoy the show, I’d really appreciate it if you could leave a rating and a review. It helps other people find the podcast.