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Why Grief Doesn’t Just Go Away
Grief is one of the most universal human experiences, yet many people struggle to understand it. There is often an expectation that grief will fade with time, that there will be a point where things go back to normal. But grief doesn’t work like that. It doesn’t get smaller or disappear. Instead, life grows around it, and we learn to carry it in different ways.
In this episode I chat with psychologist and grief researcher Liam Spicer about what grief really is, why it is more than just sadness, and how we can better support ourselves and others through loss. We talk about the expectations society places on grieving, the emotions that come with it, and why there is no right or wrong way to experience it.
Is There a Right Way to Grieve
One of the biggest misconceptions about grief is that it follows a predictable process. Many people believe there are fixed stages and that once you reach acceptance, you have moved past it. The reality is grief is not linear and does not have a clear endpoint.
Liam explains that people experience grief in different ways. Some find comfort in talking about their loss, while others prefer to process it privately. Some cry often, while others do not cry at all. None of these responses are wrong. There is no single way to grieve, and putting pressure on yourself to follow a timeline can make it even harder.
People often think grief gets smaller, but really, our life grows around it.
“There’s no right or wrong way to grieve—everyone’s experience is different.”
Why Does Grief Feel So Lonely
Grief can feel incredibly isolating, even when surrounded by others. People often do not know what to say, and that silence can make someone who is grieving feel even more alone. There is a fear of saying the wrong thing, so instead, people say nothing at all.
If you are supporting someone through grief, avoiding the topic will not make it easier for them. A simple question like What do you need right now can be more helpful than Are you okay because it allows them to express what would actually support them in that moment.
Rather than asking are you okay try asking what do you need right now.
Grief does not just fade over time. Certain dates, anniversaries, or even unexpected reminders can bring emotions flooding back. Just because someone seems fine on the surface does not mean they are not still carrying that loss. Checking in months or even years later can make a real difference.
Is Grief Only About Death
Grief is not just about losing a person. It can come from losing a relationship, a job, a sense of identity, or even the future you thought you would have. These types of losses are not always recognised in the same way, which can make them harder to process.
Grief is not just about death. It can be the loss of a job, a relationship, or even the life you thought you would have.
People grieving something other than death often feel like their pain is not valid because others have experienced worse. But grief is not a competition. It is okay to mourn the things that did not go the way you hoped. Acknowledging that loss is an important part of healing.
“Grief isn’t just about death—it can be the loss of a job, a relationship, or even the life you thought you’d have.”
When Does Grief End
There is a common idea that grief should be temporary, that after a certain point, people should move on. But grief does not have an endpoint. It shifts and changes over time, and even years later it can still surface in unexpected ways.
We assume grief has an endpoint, but in reality, it just shifts and changes over time.
Healing is not about leaving grief behind. It is about learning to carry it differently. There will be moments of joy again, and that does not mean you have forgotten the person you lost. Many people feel guilt when they start to feel happiness after loss, as if moving forward means the person no longer matters.
Guilt about feeling happy again is common, but it does not mean you have forgotten the person you lost.
Finding ways to honour and remember them while allowing yourself to keep living is an important part of the process. Grief does not mean staying stuck in pain forever. It means learning how to hold both sadness and love, loss and hope, all at the same time.
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00:00:04,000 –> 00:01:19,000
Liam Spicer: Grief is really I guess a response to loss, so it’s a normal natural human response to loss in some way, so it’s often characterised by a range of different feelings, so it could be sadness, anger, could be despair, there could be a sense of shame. frustration, so a whole range of different emotions, often people have this expectation that grief is going to go away. That’s probably one of the real big ones, so I think sometimes people think, and this is one of the things as I mentioned before as well, around societal stuff, it’s like, okay you’ve had your week now, you’ve sort of laid at home and you’ve cried and you’ve looked at photos, it’s time to get on with things, but we know that that’s certainly not the case with people, and people’s grief doesn’t necessarily get smaller. We often think that all people
00:01:23,000 –> 00:01:44,000
Marie Vakakis: Hello and welcome back to another episode of This Complex Life. In today’s episode I chat with Liam Spicer and we talk about something that’s probably not going to happen in the future. heartwarming or fun. but it’s something we’re all inevitably about. not about to experience, but will experience in life. And that is talking about grief and bereavement. Welcome.
00:01:45,000 –> 00:01:47,000
Liam Spicer: Thanks for having me on the show. Looking forward to the discussion.
00:01:48,000 –> 00:01:52,000
Marie Vakakis: Could you let the audience know a little bit about who you are?
00:01:52,000 –> 00:02:43,000
Liam Spicer: So my name is Liam Spicer. I live down here in Tasmania. I’m a psychologist and I’m also doing a PhD right now in the area of grief. I’ve done a lot in the sort of EMDR space and also neurodivergence space in terms of sort of client work. So I do work with clients throughout the week and also supervise other people. Grief has just been a particular area that I’ve ended up focusing on over the last couple of years, which has led me into obviously
00:02:43,000 –> 00:02:46,000
Marie Vakakis: to focus on for your PhD.
00:02:46,000 –> 00:04:15,000
Liam Spicer: Yeah. Yeah. So it was quite interesting. It is one of those sort of stories around personal experiences and how that often relates to to someone sort of professional journey. So throughout my honours year in psychology, unfortunately I’d lost two friends throughout that year, one was a very close friend and another friend, not long after as well. And I think through those experiences of grief, it often made me a little bit more aware just how impactful grief can be. and natural passion and enthusiasm for this area from those experiences. And then over time, working with a lot of clients in the grief space in different capacities, and then doing research in different forms, that’s sort of continued my sort of role.
00:04:16,000 –> 00:04:35,000
Marie Vakakis: journey in this area? I was going to ask about what grief is, but for a moment I just want to pull out something. else if that’s okay. As therapists and previously the school of thought was we have to have all the answers and we can’t relate to the people that we work with and we’ve got to be the professional, but something like grief.
00:04:37,000 –> 00:04:38,000
Liam Spicer: us.
00:04:39,000 –> 00:05:02,000
Marie Vakakis: integrated those sorts of experiences of your own into the work you do because even choosing to mention it on a podcast for example is really connecting with the audience in a different way. than coming out of purely– Academically in saying here are the stages of grief or this is what we do and. actually it adds a level of authenticity. and vulnerability.
00:05:03,000 –> 00:06:40,000
Liam Spicer: to the work. Yeah, I certainly see that as one of the most important components when supporting someone with grief. As you mentioned, it is a common and universal experience, and we all do go through grief. And I think in terms of support, throughout that process, having someone who understands what grief can feel like and the challenges that it may bring up or the different pain and emotion that we may experience. I think that can really create a deep connection with the clients and can really allow them to sort of have a sense of normalisation and validation around their experiences. And I think it’s sometimes one of those things that often because grief is so common and is experienced by everyone, of paramount importance.
00:06:41,000 –> 00:07:05,000
Marie Vakakis: a beautiful way of phrasing it and… But we don’t always respond to the questions. How do you, I guess, define grief and maybe how is it different or similar to bereavement? Because I hear them. to changeably and then normalise. in terms of situations or hopes and dreams. or it’s not always around a death. Can you unpack that?
00:07:07,000 –> 00:10:57,000
Liam Spicer: and nut them out of it. – Yeah, so grief is really, I guess, their response to loss. So it’s a normal, natural human response to loss in some way. So it’s often characterised by a range of different feelings. So it could be sadness, anger, could be despair, it could be a sense of sort of shame, frustration. So a whole range of different emotions and also typical behaviors as well that are seen in someone going through the sort of grief process. death loss, so that’s one important thing. Women’s bereavements, often that’s referring to, I guess, the person’s sort of experience of that loss and the process and journey of that as well. So they are often sort of used interchangeably and often people can think about both of them in in quite similar ways, but yeah it is important to really think about grief beyond just human death loss. of looking at loss and death and bereavement. Mm. Will you give me an example of- like in a non-death loss? Yeah so grief in non-death loss for example could be around maybe a loss of functioning, loss of mobility. So for example if someone’s diagnosed with maybe a neurodegenerative disorder, or there could be perhaps other physical challenges or changes that happen to that person at that point. in life, there can be a sense of grief around, “I can’t actually walk to the shop anymore.” There’s a sense of loss because something’s been taken away, something that the person’s been used to has then been taken away and there’s often sort of profound changes associated with that. to the activity with. change in terms of the meaning. that the person relates to that activity, how they see themselves, how they now see the world. So it can be quite profound at lots of different levels. Another example of sort of non-death loss can often be for people, for example, maybe getting diagnosed and identified as being autistic or ADHD in adulthood or later on in life. often be a profound sense of grief for people around what life could have looked like if I had have been recognised earlier, and thinking about the sadness around what they did miss out on and the sense of loss in different ways. So there is some examples there of sort of non-death loss, but I think it is important to take those into consideration as well, because when often people go through grief there can be lots of different emotions, there of changes in behaviour, and if we’re not understanding that this person’s going through a grieving process in relation to this other life change or non-death loss, then there get the support that they might need. or sort of be looking out for themselves as well. – Yeah. I like that example you gave of loss of function.
00:10:59,000 –> 00:11:58,000
Marie Vakakis: your diagnosis and. It’s that feeling of… what could have been or what things might’ve been like. earlier this week with someone who lost a family member and they weren’t particularly close to that family member so they were by these feelings. But I think when we unpacked it, it was a grief from a death log. but it wasn’t so much the relationship, it’s what the relationship could have. Could have been. Yeah. person no longer being around meant that nothing can be. And so while they were alive, there was this possibility. of reconnection or rekindling. some hope or dream or desire in that. them not being around anymore. They’re grieving what might have been. And they found that they’re like well we weren’t particularly close we didn’t see often. I don’t know if I really want to. their life, but I’m still feeling the power of the divine and the power of the divine.
00:11:58,000 –> 00:16:28,000
Liam Spicer: these feelings and it was this complex fusion of the two. Hmm, for sure. Yeah. And you can certainly say that for a lot of people in non death loss, but, but also death losses, you mentioned where. of the time at such a surreal time. this person isn’t here anymore. It can also be the fact that my whole imagined future and my known reality of how I live my life and how I function day to day. And when I go home, I have this routine of saying this and doing this. And we go to this special place on these particular days. All of that fundamentally changes. of response in the absence of them feeling perhaps that it was the strongest connection. important to understand as well. Because I guess one of the big myths around grief sometimes is that our level of grief or our experience of grief is dependent on how close we know someone or how close we are to that particular person. But we certainly know that that’s not true. And obviously, there can be so many different factors around the experience of grief, that can obviously make it more distressing and more challenging for people and hard in their life. It’s not just a piece of cake. what that relationship was. wrong about grief, what do we misunderstand about it? Yeah. I think a couple big things is that often people have this expectation that grief is going to go away. That’s probably one of the real big ones. So I think sometimes people think, and this is one of the things, as I mentioned before as well, around societal stuff. It’s like, okay, you’ve had your week now. You’ve sort of laid at home and you’ve cried and you’ve looked at photos. It’s time to get on with things. But we know that that’s certainly not the case for people and people’s grief really looking at grief in terms of not necessarily getting something. that our life grows around the grief. So often we accommodate the loss into our life. However, those feelings are still gonna be there in certain ways and at different times, sort of waves of grief will come. For example, anniversaries or birthdays or Christmas. And it’s important not to pathologise those responses, but that’s certainly one big one out there that’s a little bit of a myth, I think also as well. that suggests that we sort of progress and go through these different phases to get to a level of acceptance. We do know as well now that from… research and just from understanding more about what grief is actually like for people that that in fact isn’t the case and that although some people may experience all those five phases of grief, that it’s not going to be experienced for all people. And certainly it may not be experienced in the sort of suggested order as well. another sort of big factor about grief as well that I think we need to take into consideration.
00:16:29,000 –> 00:16:42,000
Marie Vakakis: from memory. off the psych study. That model was by… on a person’s own, like in palliative care or a job. of terminal illness. So the stages of grief was actually.
00:16:42,000 –> 00:17:44,000
Liam Spicer: based on how that person grieves their own death rather than for someone else. Yeah, and that’s another thing as well, like as our understanding of grief has evolved over time, like we need to be looking at things in terms of it being a little bit more, I guess, complex and nuanced, then a little bit more multifaceted in the sense that there’s so many individual predictors, it’s good to think broad and think outside the box in relation to.
00:17:45,000 –> 00:18:37,000
Marie Vakakis: experience of grief. How would you kind of work with someone who they feel guilty to be happy. when someone close to them has passed. so if it’s the loss of a parent or a child or a sibling… I’ve worked with… folks who, when they experience a moment of happiness. immediately pull away because they feel. the Serialist Survivors Guild, that might be a whole different thing but… -Mm-hmm. -If I’m happy. don’t miss them anymore. if I let go of those really raw, feelings of grief or forget them. So they really get stuck in. not wanting to be disrespectful or being happy feels inappropriate. So there’s the Greek, at the last, but then there’s these other complex thoughts and
00:18:38,000 –> 00:20:59,000
Liam Spicer: that sort of emerge in those discussions. Do you have that or have you observed that in some people that you work with? Yeah, certainly. I think it can be quite common for some people. And I think one of the big things firstly is to really try and, I guess, create a deep connection with that person and obviously normalise the feelings that are going on and provide a sort of sense of validation around those things. I think a lot of time, especially around sort of memories of the deceased, through some of the big emotions and perhaps some of the distress, they often can recount sort of more positive memories. But I think sometimes that they can be sort of interventions and things that can be useful for people, especially experiencing these feelings of grief. Often I’ve found trying to create some form of connection with that lost person is a good way to actually allow them to maybe even express some of these feelings. And you can actually even have a bit of a dialogue as well. up speed expressing maybe that they’re feeling a sense of guilt and they’re feeling bad that they’re on or trying to do things to re-engage in life, and then they can actually have the imagined deceased person in a chair speak back to them and say, “You know, I’m not going to do this.” information or perhaps some words that’s going to create a little bit of a shift in them. So I think a lot of the time people would understand that that loved one wouldn’t want us to be feeling can’t do anything anymore or feeling like we can’t be happy and enjoy life. So that can certainly be a bit of a useful intervention and gradually over time. So increasing levels of behavioural engagement is certainly something that’s been shown to be positively supported throughout the research that can help even with the feelings of guilt as the more they’re engaging in new things, creating joy and creating new experiences, they can often start to have a bit of a reduction in those feelings as well.
00:21:00,000 –> 00:22:05,000
Marie Vakakis: letter writing and stuff like that can also sort of serve that purpose when people are feeling those sort of guilty feelings as well. So that’s quite good for those therapists who are listening. You know you might be able to use some of your schema therapy training but what can a friend or family member do so if they’re listening to the listening… Well, it’s more complex and the… compassionately if we get is not enough. How can people start to… new discourse, or as they start to understand this a bit more, how can they show up for that person? Like what are some… ways that people can have different conversations because in my experience we don’t do grief well at all. are very uncomfortable and they’re worried to maybe upset the person or bring up those memories, but they don’t know. probably thinking about it anyway. And they’re coming back to work or to school or maybe it’s the anniversary of, of the. loved one.” about it and they feel incredible. alone and then nothing.
00:22:05,000 –> 00:24:25,000
Liam Spicer: exacerbates a lot of the distress. So how can we encourage people to do something different? Yeah, that’s a really good point to make. I think a lot of people often sort of feel like they’re walking on eggshells or feel like it’s best to sort of not say anything in fear of actually making things worse for that person. But I certainly do feel like we have to not be afraid to have these conversations, not be afraid to actually ask someone genuinely, “How are you going?” I think in terms of… What do you need? Do you want to talk about the loss? Or do you want to go out and catch up and have a bit of a coffee? Or do you want to go to the gym? Or do you want to go to the gym and get some coffee? Maybe go and do something that’s actually– to help you have a fun or new experience, because I know that you haven’t been out of the house for a month now. So we really need to just think about it, tailoring it to that person and as a friend or a family member and other support in that person’s life, just even directly asking them the question, what do you feel like you need? What would actually help you the most right now with what you’re going on? And it obviously sounds quite simple, but even within the field of grief, often we think about social support connects with us and we can go ahead and create new pleasurable experiences. That can really be meaningful and important as well. In the area of grief, we often talk about the in terms of a dual process model, where– to accommodate and adjust to a loss. It’s often a bit of a balance between connecting with the grief but also reinventing and creating a new life beyond the loss that still has purpose and meaning. there with a person and talking to for having to sort of be with those big emotions. doing some of the other stuff as well that helps the person sort of reinvest in their life now. Yeah, I love that.
00:24:26,000 –> 00:25:17,000
Marie Vakakis: I often suggest. more specific than asking what do you need? Cause if someone’s really in the midst of quite big feelings, they often can’t think. So I encourage people, and I’d be curious to hear your thoughts, to be specific of what their boundaries or their capacity to offer. So if it is saying, I can bring you a lasagna. for the next few weeks, I can walk your dog, I can take your kids to school or I can pick we can sit in absolute silence. Cause everyone will say, I’ll just call me if you need something. And on the person who’s who anyone who’s ever been on the other side of that notes the well wishes but never actually take. that offer. They don’t want to be too much. They don’t want to impose. They think that it’s only out of obligation. and we make up all these stories.
00:25:18,000 –> 00:26:36,000
Liam Spicer: And we don’t reach out because we don’t even know what the limits are of that person’s support. So how can we narrow down the focus a bit? Definitely. And I think that’s a really great suggestion, as you mentioned there, like often when we might ask a question, it might be difficult to listen to responses, giving examples, giving suggestions and saying, well, I can do this. I can sit with you and hear about the grief. I can actually help you out at a practical level. I can actually engage in this way with you. And we can what’s my capacity as someone supporting the grief, and then the person grieving can obviously take up on those different offers.
00:26:37,000 –> 00:26:46,000
Marie Vakakis: need the most. Yeah. And what about self-help? Like I often recommend to people if they have the capacity to read the book, it’s okay not to be okay.
00:26:47,000 –> 00:28:27,000
Liam Spicer: some of those resources or even listen to some interviews with the author. Do you have any kind of self-help tips for folk who are listening? Yeah, I certainly think one of the most important sort of resources or areas out there is actually through the Australian Centre for Grief and Perveiment. That’s got a really good range and collection of different resources regarding griefs. where they can actually see. that can be quite helpful for people so during the more cute face of grief.
00:28:27,000 –> 00:28:46,000
Marie Vakakis: And as a kind of wrapping up. some general kind of takeaways like if we simplify it right down to people who this might be all they’ve never listened to anything about grief and yet every single person they know will love experience.
00:28:49,000 –> 00:30:20,000
Liam Spicer: themselves, how do we kind of give them some parting words of wisdom or advice on that? I think grief is very powerful in the sense that is also what connects us all as humans. So I think it is really nice to look at grief in the sense that obviously as humans, it is something that is a universal experience. understanding can bring in the real humanness and sense of connection when we’re supporting someone with grief. So I think really trying to break things down and understand that from that person’s perspective, life looks like now, understand the unique challenges and try and support them in the best way we possibly can. I think it is nice to sort of look at things in and we all do experience it in different ways. I think they’re some of the really key things to take away.
00:30:20,000 –> 00:30:23,000
Marie Vakakis: the feelings you mentioned at the start around.
00:30:24,000 –> 00:33:46,000
Liam Spicer: What can come with grief? So can be anger, hurt, frustration, pain, like there’s all these things bundled in with grief. That’s right. Yeah. That can be activated in us. That’s right. It’s not just one thing. And I think in terms of how it impacts on our behaviors as well, it’s such a wide and far reaching thing, we might feel less social for a period of time, we might sort of feel a bit avoidance of, of certain topics or going to certain places for a point of time as well. but obviously it is something that does impact us on different ways, and that’s why it’s that’s gonna support us. that’s going to meet our needs the most. >> That’s beautiful. When is it maybe a time to get some professional support? >> Yeah, it’s a really good question. I think it’s one of those things that we do know through research that sort of directs intervention for, the pain and sadness there is there still, a lot of people accommodate and adjust the loss into their lives. have a bit of a chat, go through some grief counselling, get some resources, get some education and support if they feel that would be beneficial. I think it’s really up to the person in that regard. But in terms of sort of specific therapy and sort of intervention, often that’s sort of really needed when someone experiences I guess a more complicated or prolonged grief response. It’s difficult to sort So that’s it. of the game. for that, but that often does require some more sort of specific intervention and support. And about seven to 10% of the bereaved population experience that more form of complicated and prolonged grief. So we do know that different factors make it more likely that people develop that response. But yeah, it’s just good to keep an eye on things, keep an eye on people in their lives when they have lost someone
00:33:47,000 –> 00:34:31,000
Marie Vakakis: So the more formal intervention. Okay. That’s really helpful for people to know. And can people kind of seek professional Like I know when I had a death in the family, I went and saw a counsellor because there was time to be able to share those experiences with other family members, but then there didn’t want to hold space for someone else or have this idea of, I don’t want to then upset you. Or if you, you’re having a good like, so it was like, to play that was just for me with someone. Let me…feel my feelings vent. that it’s going to upset them or impact them. So is it also okay to just have a few sessions with someone, with a counselor, with a therapist, psychologist, to just process or?
00:34:31,000 –> 00:35:26,000
Liam Spicer: pack? Yeah, certainly. I think that’s a really good idea. And as I mentioned, it’s really based on what the person feels is going to support them the most throughout that process. So a lot of the time people may go through a loss. They may sort of do some sort of general counseling. They may get some support from some form of professional in some way. But that being said as well, like it can also come in the form of sort of religious support or spiritual support. Often that can be a common And that’s a really great thing. And also for people that then, I guess, do have that more… or complicated response they can also get… and support around that down the track if they really need.
00:35:26,000 –> 00:35:32,000
Marie Vakakis: to as well. Awesome. Well, I’ll pop in the links to that book that I mentioned and the
00:35:34,000 –> 00:37:23,000
Liam Spicer: website, do you have any other resources that either people can look at for themselves or for someone they’re concerned about, anywhere they should check out or go or come to Tassie and see you? Yeah, there’s an interesting book actually that was written from someone and just I think released in the last year, which is written for a general audience, it’s really quite interesting in terms of sort of talking about personal experiences of grief and also sort of all the up to date in developing our understandings of it. So that can certainly be a nice resource for people as well that wanna learn a little bit more about it and look at… What’s going on in the up-to-date space in Grif? Just quickly adding that to the list. I’ll pop all of those in the show notes. And if people want to connect with you or work with you with your availability, what are you offering? How can they get in touch? Yeah, so people can feel free to send me an email as well. Connect on LinkedIn and Instagram and whatnot. I can certainly post all the information as well for you to put in the show notes in regards to that. and they can sort of check out my website and stuff as well, which I’ll provide to you if you’d like and can connect, ask any questions or whatnot about the share if they need to.
00:37:23,000 –> 00:37:36,000
Marie Vakakis: any need for further information. So certainly happy to help out in that regard. Lovely. Well, thanks so much for sharing your wisdom and a little bit about your personal journey and I’m hoping listeners will be able to take away some of that.
00:37:36,000 –> 00:38:20,000
Liam Spicer: different about this episode, then perhaps they might have heard or come across in other kind of formats. Because we tend not to talk about it because it’s a topic that makes people feel uncomfortable. But yeah, we all kind of go through it. Yes, yeah. It’s funny when you think about it like that. It’s just sort of a strange thing that we’re often struggling with at different points in our life. good to have wider education around this area out there. Thanks for having me on the show to chat about all that today. >> Great. Thank you. [music]
00:38:21,000 –> 00:38:35,000
Marie Vakakis: Thank you for listening. going head on over to Instagram or LinkedIn and follow me. If you’d like to keep up to date. episodes and other interesting things happening in mental health, join my weekly This Complex Life newsletter, where I’ll share the results.
