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Welcome to This Complex Life. I’m Marie Vakakis, and each week we make a bit more sense of the messy, complicated, and every now and again, gloriously beautiful business of being human, mostly the relationships we’re in and the mental health tangled up in them. really glad you’re here.

Marie: Let’s get into it. on the show, I have a lovely human that I wanna introduce you to, and if we had heaps more time, I would love to pick her brain on all things women in leadership and personal branding and business stuff. But today, talking about some more personal things. I wanna introduce you all to Fi.

welcome, Fi

Fi: Hey, Marie. Great to be here and great to see your face.

Marie: Likewise. Our matching glasses, for those who might catch this on video. We are huge fans of the Glasses Dresden, and I probably should get a

I think I have recommended them to everybody. Before we get into the

Fi: Thank great God

Marie: yeah, tell me what season of life you’re in at the moment.

What’s taking up space for you?

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Fi: I am I would say I’m in my midlife season proudly. I am 52 this year, turning 53 and I’ve been in business for 23 years, and I’ve got 17-year-old twins, a boy and a girl, who are currently in year 11. So very much in, I believe, what we call the sandwich generation. I also have elderly parents who are both in aged care with different forms of dementia.

So yeah I’m in that midlife season where I’m juggling aging parents with kids and business and marriage and friendships and health in between

Marie: So many listeners would have an appreciation for that because so many things happen seems to be all at once alongside each other

Fi: Absolutely. I do find that having my kids now as 17-year-olds, it does start to ease up on that end. Although I’m sure as you’re aware sometimes the mental load with kids at that age can be more challenging, and we definitely have been through that earlier [00:02:00] with one of our children and still currently a little bit with maybe the other.

But they are very self-sufficient and we live in a suburb where they can get themselves to and from school, where they can walk to and from school and catch buses and, kids today, they can be very independent given the right means. They grow up so quickly not always thankfully due to the platforms.

Yeah, so the parenting aspect has changed a lot, and that’s not so much of a load, but definitely, I think again, as you would relate to running your own business, but also people who are in corporate roles, it’s a large part of our life, and it has to usually be quite a big focus of it.

So managing that alongside, the parenting and the parents, and I think what I’ve felt most deeply is managing my own health. I have luckily been very healthy most of my life, and I’ve always been really active, whether it’s dance or sport or something else, and I currently play basketball.

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But, women my age, we are getting… anyone in that 40-plus age, as women, we’re getting a lot of messaging thrown at us around having to put a lot more effort and time and energy into whether it’s lifting weights or, something else.

And I’ve really struggled to hit my straps with that, and I think that is in part because, it probably does go to the bottom of the list a little bit, and it’s something I still struggle to find time for. But I feel in my head like time is running out now that I’m in my 50s, you can’t push it down the road too much longer. So that’s probably something that takes up a bit of stress in my head particularly with parents that have got dementia. My mom has Alzheimer’s, and they say exercise, sleep, all those things really help. And sleep and to a degree, exercise are the two areas that I really need to improve in my life

Marie: Yeah, but you are an avid hiker. You, did you do a multi-day hike with your son recently? Did you end up doing that?

Fi: Yes, I did. Yes, I did. Yeah, we did a three-day hike in the Grampians. My husband and I used to hike a lot after we met. We both love travel, and we did some great hikes [00:04:00] around Australia and overseas which became harder when we had the kids and he has some health complications now, so he can’t go away for long stints.

It’s a lot more challenging. So yeah, I got my teenage boy to come away with me, and we had a great time, and it really did, Whilst I was probably glad I wasn’t carrying 15 kilos for more than three days it was a really strong reminder to me that I’ve gotta keep doing those things because we can, right?

There’s nothing stopping me. Tony and I have just been interstate for a short trip for five days, and we sat next to a woman who would’ve been in her late 60s or early 70s. We didn’t actually ask her age. But she has been doing walking tours with her girlfriends for 26 years, and she was on her way for one of those trips, and I was like, “Wow, that’s what I want to do.”

Marie: I love that. I did the full, is it the 13-day Grampian Peaks Trail? The full thing, so and I did have a few meltdowns along the way

Fi: Oh, that would’ve been amazing, but very challenging. Yeah. Yeah.

Marie: It didn’t occur to

Fi: It’s a great trail

Marie: the name. It’s in the name that it’s peaks. And I was like, “Why the heck are we going up and down [00:05:00] every single day? Surely we could just

Fi: Yeah.

Marie: But no, it’s

Fi: Yes

Marie: because… Anyway.

Fi: Yeah, there’s lots of them. When we hiked it, I do remember that first day at Mount Zero, it was just straight uphill, and I had a few moments where I’m like, ” What the F am I doing?” And even I think my boy, who hasn’t really done any hardcore hikes, like he’s very sporty and he’s very fit, but I don’t think he’d done anything like that, and even he looked at me a couple of times and was like, “What are we doing?”

But as soon as we got that day under our belt, the rest of it was amazing, and he was climbing rocks and having a great time, so yeah. It is pretty special to get out in nature, isn’t it? It’s– we need to do that all the time.

Marie: Yeah. It’s one of my favorite things to do, and I use it in a lot of mental health metaphors as well.

You’re in that sandwich generation, and you’ve been in business for, did you say 23 years or

Fi: 23 years now.

Marie: Yeah.

Fi: Yeah

Marie: of your early career, from memory, was a lot of wedding photography and after-hours work.

And in the last few years that I’ve known you, there’s been a lot [00:06:00] more sort of business, like coaching and support, and essentially holding space for a lot of other people. so not a therapist like I am, but you’re still the person that other people go to with their problems or to make their day special. How do you cope with the stuff that’s happening in your personal life, then having a job where people still need so much from you?

Fi: Great question. Look, I– reflecting on that, I, in many respects feel like because I am so passionate about my business, it often is a way I can distract myself if things are going on in my own life. That might sound, I don’t know, maybe like it could– I could also be the opposite for other people. But I think when you enjoy or love what you do, and let’s say something has happened at home which isn’t great, and I have to jump on a call often it can be really good for me because I have to focus and be present for that person.

It’s the only way to show up for them. So it actually can if I’m highly [00:07:00] stressed or heightened f- in some way, like it’ll bring me back down because I’m just focusing on them. I’ve definitely had calls where I’ve had to walk away from maybe a tense situation straight onto a call.

And yeah, the heart can be beating a little bit and you can be thinking about it. But I do feel like if you can just lock in and, bring your attention to the person you’re holding support for, in many ways that, that’s really can be beneficial if you’re dealing with something

Marie: Do you find it different being a woman in business than what might be the expectations of you if you were a man doing the same job?

Fi: Yes. Yes, absolutely. Look I’ll give you two, two responses to this. One is that and maybe we can talk about this a little bit more through the podcast interview, but I have an incredible husband who is my biggest support and cheerleader. Due to his health complications, he can’t w- work full time anymore.

When we were both working full time we were still very much equal partners. He would do, he wouldn’t have any problem picking up the load when he had to, and I would pick up what I had to. Some [00:08:00] of the chores, let’s say, that we had around the house would fall into maybe things that you would say, like gender type roles.

He’s great at mowing the lawns and I would do the laundry, that kind of stuff. But as our working lives have evolved and he has more free time now than me, I will still absolutely dip in and help whenever I can, but he takes a lot of the load now that I know, because of the women I’m talking to, and this is part, my second part of this answer, I know from the conversations I have with women that they are still holding a lot of the load in addition to having to run their business because there is an expectation that they…

I just think in some respects, whilst I don’t want this to become a gender conversation, I don’t think men are used to having to hold that in their head. So some of the time it might be expected, but some of the time I think they don’t know what they don’t know. And I also find that if you work from home, there can be an expectation, and I had a conversation where someone mentioned this just this morning, if you work from home, there is an expectation that you have time to do those things as well.

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Which as we know as small business owners yes, sometimes I get up and I might do the dishwasher or something because it will give me a five-minute break from my desk. But I remember back in my early years you definitely cannot let yourself get distracted by getting up and saying, “Oh, I should do the cleaning or the washing or something,” because it’s the worst thing we can do for our business when we do that.

Does that answer the question?

Marie: Yeah, look, there’s no right or wrong answer. I think it’s just something that we’re coming out of a few years of hybrid working and people have different relationship dynamics, and it was just a curiosity around around that. And the podcast allows us to explore things in a bit more nuance than just a really kind of carousel or something on social media

Fi: Yeah. One thing, if I can expand on that a little bit then, one thing I am thinking about a lot at the moment, actually I’ve always thought about a lot, is that I do– I think as women we have progressed to this time now when we can work alongside our partners. But I do not think society has progressed with us, and I’m not talking about equal pay or anything like that.

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It hasn’t caught up with the fact that two people in this relationship could be working. You do need to allow, make allowances for the fact that one of those partners may need to take more time off or start later or finish earlier.

And I, I don’t think there’s the allowances there. And then in bringing it across to a school-based perspective, there is so much admin with schools having been through almost to, right through to year 12. The amount of time that parents have to apply to keeping up with school communication sitting down with your kids and having conversations about school and how they’re going, and having potentially conversations with their teachers.

I know from our experience that we are able to keep up with it only because my husband Tony has the time to do that ’cause he doesn’t have to work full-time. But were we both working full-time, it would be so challenging to keep up with, and I think those systems, th- those institutions, work and school needs to change so that it is

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like it is better supporting families where both partners are working.

Marie: Yeah,

Fi: I think it’s a big problem

Marie: it’s a, it’s an interesting challenge that a lot of people face when they come and see me in couples therapy. It’s around the division of chores and tasks, but it’s also the unspoken expectations, and sometimes it can be really tricky, and I’ve seen it happen where it’s not always gendered, but there are some things that are very weighted that way where… And it, it could be even just booking the dog in to go to the vet. A lot of bus- small businesses, like mine as well, I don’t work after hours. I don’t offer many after-hours appointments, and all the services I access don’t offer that either, so you have to take some time off work. sometimes there’s the default to which spouse’s job has the more flexibility, or what is seen as okay to ask. And

Fi: Yeah

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Marie: the culture of a workplace. It’s the looks that a male might get when they’re like, “Oh, I need to leave an hour early ’cause I have to take the dog to the vet,” or, “I will be working from home that day because my kids have a school function on,” or how many dads are there working at the Mother’s Day stall versus how many mums are working at the Father’s Day stall.

There’s still a lot of those ingrained assumptions

Fi: Absolutely.

Marie: we

Fi: Yeah

Marie: from work and relationships

Fi: Yeah. No, absolutely. I think that’s going to take many years. And I actually, I listened to a podcast last week, and it was a woman talking about the trad wife movement, and I’m– I don’t want to talk about that per se, that’s another whole conversation. But she said what that actually started from was… or what actually created that trad wife movement or change in women was that women were all starting to work, but because they were then having to do everything else as well as work, they all threw up their hands in the air and went why are we having to work so hard?

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I’d rather stay at home and just cook and clean and look after the kids, because it’s not worth it for everything I have to do at home plus work.” I thought that was a really great perspective that I hadn’t heard, that in actual fact, this trad wife thing, it’s about women’s resistance to the fact that you told us we could have it all.

But having it all, it’s just killing us and burning us out, and the men aren’t having to deal with this because they’re not picking up any of that load or enough of it yet. That I thought was a really interesting nuance of the trad wife movement and probably needs to be talked about more as well, which I suppose comes back to my point that, the rest of the world, like schools and workplaces, have to lift to meet us where we’re at now, because I don’t– it’s not gonna go backwards, right?

Women are gonna keep working, which is fantastic. But everything around that has to change to give us the space we need to still live a life that doesn’t burn us out.

Marie: It is. And as you’re talking about the health bits earlier, reading something, it was just a tongue in cheek comment on social media of someone’s like never felt more pressure now to get good sleep, lift weights, take magnesium, take I don’t know, creatine, do all of these things.

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There’s more pressure to do that than there was to take drugs in high school. And I was like, it’s actually quite funny because there is all this pressure, there’s this abundance of knowledge, and a fear of what lies ahead and what we could have controlled that sits within that person’s mind as well. Trying to prioritise their own health, their own sleep, and be there for other people, and

Fi: Yeah. Yeah

Marie: hopes, aspirations, or ambitions

Fi: Yeah. It’s almost, yeah, there’s too much opportunity now and too much information, and I totally relate to what you said about the health thing because I’ve listened to, quite a few podcasts where they’re– a- and looked at a couple of books where it’s, it dives really deeply into the science behind it.

And I cannot get my head around it. And I’m not a stupid person, right? So– And I– Same, like I, I bought the creatine, but then I never ended up taking it because in my head I’m like, “It’s just another thing I have to think of doing every day.” And you can either feel terrible about it all that, no matter what you do, you’re never going to meet the expectations and the standards that are needed to actually be healthy.

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Or you can be like, “You know what? Even if I’m just doing this one thing it’s still gonna be helpful.” ‘Cause I remember reading that, you should eat protein as a woman before you do any exercise. And I used to get up in the morning and just go on coffee, and I, and Tony and I would go and do boot camp before we ate or anything.

So then I had these few months where I’m like, “This isn’t worthwhile. I can’t get up and exercise ’cause I haven’t had any protein, and I don’t want to eat.” So I was in this space where I was so confused, and then I was like, what am I doing?” It’s better to get up and exercise on no protein than to not exercise at all.

But you’re right. We’re wrestling now with, we’re trying so hard, but nothing we do is going to meet all the things they’re telling us we should be doing. So it, it can be really challenging.

Marie: And who do you unload this with? Who do you sift through some of these competing thoughts and the things swirling around in your brain? ‘Cause I’m sure if we kept digging, so much more would come out. Where does it all go? Who gets to help you hold it?

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Fi: My husband is my best mate. We are soulmates. We have a great relationship. We talk a lot. So I would definitely say I talk to him about a lot of stuff. He’s used to me ranting a little bit about gender things. He definitely is a great sounding board for me and vice versa. We provide that to each other. But yeah, I’ve got– I’m– I’ve always been someone who’s had probably a very small number of close friends rather than a very big number, a big social circle of, I suppose acquaintances or social friends.

So I have definitely a couple of really close mates that, I can pick up the phone and talk to them about stuff. And I think we find with friends as well that some of them are better with some conversations than others. Like some, I’ve got friends who have got, have also got parents with health issues and in aged care, so you know, you might pick up the phone and talk to those ones when you need to talk about that.

And I also have– I’ve got two brothers, but one’s interstate, so my Victorian brother, my and myself, we share care for our parents. Again, so lucky there because I speak to so many let’s just say women ’cause I speak to a lot of women that might be the only sibling left to do that.

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So I can pick up the phone to my brother or some friends that, I can talk to about those issues. I’ve got, a girlfriend I play basketball with who’s right into all the health stuff, so I talk to her about health issues, I think. And I think we all need them, those people in our lives, right?

People that we can talk to because I just think that’s good for the soul. As humans, we need to communicate. That’s what we’re great at, and I know there’s a lot of talk about, needing more of that human connection at this day and age because of AI and technology, and I think it would be a really sad place if we didn’t have people we could pick up the phone and talk to or just see in person as well.

It’s really important.

Marie: I think so. And I, when I was thinking about the season of the podcast, I was trying to think who would be really great to have these conversations. you do practice what you preach. You are very good at drawing people together, coming into the same room, sharing things in a authentic way, but not overstepping and still being professional.

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And I thought it’d be a really nice for people to hear about how you balance all of those things without having to be a m- mental health expert or a relationship expert, just a human humaning through some of these really difficult life stages and transitions

Fi: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and look, I think there’s always help out there, professionals like yourself psychologists, counselors, whatever you need. I think, there is– I think we’re in a great time as well, where if we need that additional support, someone else to talk to outside of our friends and partners and family, we have that as well on tap, really which is great.

Yeah, and I’m sure she wouldn’t mind me saying, but my daugh- our daughter at the moment is having a few issues around anxiety, so we’ve tapped straight into a local psychologist, which she’s gonna see next week, and we can talk to her about it a lot, and we’re really thankful that she’s really open with it about us.

But knowing we have that person that we can tap her into, who’s a professional, who can actually give her some deeper level help than us, obviously is great. So I think, we should use the resources we have when we need them, whether it’s, your inner circle or a professional as well.

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Marie: Did you have to overcome any assumptions or stigma around accessing services? Was that something that was not what you grew up with? Like, how did you be okay with that?

Fi: Yeah. I was okay with it. Something I don’t talk about much, but I had an eating disorder in my late teens, so I went along and saw a counselor then. That was the first time. Actually, they might have been a psychologist. I can’t even remember ’cause it was so long ago. I do remember them trying to blame my mother for it, which was not right.

But it was still… So I’ve, yeah, I’ve accessed help back then. My husband he’s, his parents separated when he was a teen, and he saw a counselor at that point in time. And now with his, with his health complications just to let your audience know, he has Huntington’s disease.

He’s in early stages of that disease, which can be pretty, very challenging as it goes on. We’ve individually and together seen counselors to talk through issues around that. So yeah, I don’t know whether we’re just people that don’t have an issue with it, but probably maybe based on the fact that each of us independently when we were younger, we accessed that kind of help as well.

I know I grew up with a family where I could talk to my mum and dad really easily. 

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He has a great relationship with his mum, so I think we’re just, we’ve always been big advocates of communication, and it’s probably what’s made our relationship as a as a married couple work so well. Not to say we haven’t had challenges ’cause of course every married couple does, but I just think communication is gold.

So whether you get that from each other or whether you need to access someone outside of your relationship, I think there’s definitely times where talking to a third party that doesn’t know you is great, right? We were just saying last week that, we both went overseas when we were in our 20s.

I went and lived in London for a couple of years. Tony went and lived in the States for a bit, and our kids have both each been overseas for six months on student exchange. And just even relating it to that, that was such a great time because you went overseas and you weren’t answerable to anyone.

You didn’t have to be anyone. You could just be whoever you wanted to be. So you know, we were really lucky to have those experiences as well, which I think really helps you grow as a person and maybe find a little bit more about who you are. Yeah. But I’ve never felt  self-conscious or I don’t know what the word is, but I’ve never worried about having to go and talk to a professional.

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I think they do an amazing job, and they can help you through many things

Marie: Yes, we can.

Fi: Yes,

Marie: lot of people go to therapy and

Fi: you can

Marie: hope to change the other person, and that’s not how it works . But I think it’s one of the big differences now that we’re noticing between what AI can do, ’cause AI’s just gonna agree with you, and what a therapist can do about looking at y- the things that you bring. So you’ve mentioned before, like communication is really important, and we’ve had conversations in the past around things like boundaries. What are the things that you’ve learnt to do differently that have contributed to c- having the happy relationship, whether it’s with your kids or with your husband now?

What ha- what have you taken accountability for and thought, “I’m going to do this different,” and that has led to a good outcome? Just a curly question there for you

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Fi: I think we’ve always been able to, even if we’ve had disagreements where we’ve both been upset, we’ve always been  able to come back and talk about it And listening to the other person. And one constant in our relationship is that I think we’ve always cared more about the other person’s happiness than our own, I would say.

So we want to make sure they’re okay. We put them before ourselves. So to me, it’s really important that Tony’s happy and vice versa. So I think when you come at a relationship with that angle, that’s worked really well for us. We’re both good communicators, which I have already mentioned, but I think that’s helped. I think where at times when I have gotten very angry and upset and haven’t agreed with something he’s said, I think I have learnt to sit in that and firstly calm down.

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No, ne- don’t ever respond straight away if you’re feeling angry and upset. Go away and come back to it later. But also always try and put yourself in the other person’s perspective. And I don’t know whether my parents taught me that or whether that’s something I grew into, but I think in a lot of situations in life that come up, whether it’s friends or otherwise or Tony, I will be like w- what’s his perspective here, and how can I see it from his perspective?”

And I think that can often soften it for, from our own perspective. That’s from a marriage perspective. With the kids, I think with the kids I’ve learnt to, to zip it more. Because often you can want to take the high road as a parent because you know you’re right, and I think I– it’s taken me probably longer than it should’ve, but I think sometimes I’ve learnt as times, and as they’ve gotten older, to just not always have the last word and tell them they’re wrong.

But yeah, let them have their say. And look I think the downside to twins, like there have been so many upsides because I’ve loved having twins. I’ve loved that we haven’t had to go back and juggle an- another age straight after. We’ve been able to enjoy every stage as it’s come. But the only downside I will say is that everything we’ve learnt, we’re like, “Oh, we don’t get to do that again with another kid.”

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So I’ve learnt things as a parent, but it’s “Oh, I can use that now, but I’m never gonna get to use that skill again now.” Yeah I think that’s definitely something I have learnt. And letting them share their perspective more I think, yeah, in conversations with my kids, I think sometimes I’ve learnt that they won’t share because as they will eventually tell us it…

no matter what I say, you’re just gonna say I’m wrong anyway,” or, “I already know what you’re gonna say.” So I think we’ve gotten better and better at really encouraging them to share their feelings and how they feel, and trying to make them feel confident in the fact that we’re not going to just, that we care how they feel even if we don’t agree with it.

Marie: That’s a really beautiful thing is the the you can be, have empathy and validate even if you don’t agree

Fi: Yep. Yep. And my son and I are both stubborn, which means I think we both want to win the argument, so we butt heads a lot. But I’m learning, I have learnt and am still learning, I’m always learning that yep it’s okay to just stand back and not say anything, and yeah. Yeah. But it’s, yeah parenting kids and teens it’s really challenging.

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In many respects I’ve found those younger years so much easier, but I think that’s just because I’ve forgotten the pain of, no sleep and the juggling, juggling the twins. I suppose twins in particular made it harder. But it’s really rewarding at this age as well, seeing them turn into these younger adults, and you just see the depth increasing as they get older as well in terms of the conversations they have with us.

And for us it’s really interesting because our son, as it is with most kids, is developing mentally a little bit slower than our daughter because that’s just the way it is for boys, right? It just takes them a little bit longer generally speaking. So we’ve had to be… Whereas with our daughter, we had more issues with her when she was a few years younger.

So that’s been… We’ve had to be really mindful of that as well in reminding ourselves that he’s gonna need a little bit more time than her to get to the same place in terms of, just seeing the world in certain ways and understanding his place in it and yeah, just I suppose that emotional maturity that they, grow into as each year as they get older.

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So that’s been really interesting and great to recognise

Marie: That’s one of my favorite age groups to work with, so I could pepper you with questions, but we’re wrapping up now. If someone was listening to this and they’re they’re sitting with some of these same challenges, either aging parents, and we could even have a whole episode on, what we call prolonged grief, so the grief of knowing you’re losing somebody who’s there but not there and that is a really complex kind of grief. And then we’ve got a husband with health concerns, and teens, and running a business, and a changing economy. What would you want them to know if any one of those things they can relate to?

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Fi: I, look, I do think it’s hard because everyone’s situation is different. Yes, it’s challenging having parents in care, but mine are both in a pretty good place and my dad in particular, who, he doesn’t have Alzheimer’s, so he’s pretty lucid. He’s still there with his brain. He’s very grateful for us, whereas I speak to other people who’ve got parents that aren’t happy with where they are, and they aren’t happy with the situation.

So it’s hard. I wouldn’t give recommendations or advice, but I, I do find that

I think you just have to really look after yourself. You have to lean into help and support where you can get it from, whether that’s siblings, friends, partner. I think one thing I talk about a lot in business, which I think could also relate to this is sharing. The the huge benefits you can get from just sharing.

And like you said at the start, who do you actually talk to? That is so important, right? Because if you can’t talk to your partner about certain things or your siblings, I think there’s– if the people in certain relationships you can’t talk to, you have to have someone else, because I think if we keep everything bottled up, it does become– Obviously just builds up, right?

And it, it doesn’t do us any good, so you have to find someone you can talk to. You have to be, you have to be okay with talking to people, ’cause I do– I think sometimes, and even with some of my closest friends, I think I’ve had them say to me at times I, I’ve got to stop talking about me.

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We need to start talking about you more. I feel like I’m taking up all the space in this conversation.” Or “I didn’t want to talk about this tonight because I don’t want to bring the mood down.” And I think as friends, we always want to be there for others. So I think we have to know that it’s okay to talk to people and really lean into that.

And our friends, if they’re our friends, and particularly our closer friends, they want to be there for us and they want to support us. Even if they can’t help us physically, I think just being an ear for someone and letting them get it all out of their system is really helpful. And I think the other thing I would say is just looking after yourself, like really making sure you spend time doing things that make you feel good, whether that’s from a health perspective or just a joy perspective.

Make sure you prioritise yourself, particularly in my season of life, because we are getting older, and this is where I really press on the women that I coach in business, they’re all 40 plus, that, it’s not like we’re on the downhill slide. There’s a lot of life left to give, but we don’t have the time and the energy we used to have in our 20s and 30s.

[00:29:00]

And my energy has definitely changed, so I’m really trying to slow down now. And I think we have to– I’m constantly thinking, what can I be doing now to help me slow down or change, adjust my life to a different lifestyle that I know is gonna be better for me in the next six months, one year, two years, five years, ten years.

I think cons-consistently really just making those plans because it can take time sometimes, particularly if it’s your own business you’re running. So really just protecting yourself and your energy and yeah, surrounding yourself with those people that will support you, whether it’s just being an ear or in other ways.

Marie: Yeah, I love all those therapist-approved strategies. I agree with all of those things. I think that’s really beautiful. And the bit I like that maybe a lot of people don’t do, and I guess when you’ve got smaller kids, feel probably like a bit more autopilot, but it’s actually what you said around thinking about what do I need to slow down? And sometimes I see it a lot in couples therapy sessions where not that the couple’s even fighting, they haven’t actually sat down to have conversations about some of those future hurdles or just future planning. And that’s where those assumptions, whether it’s a gender role or expectation or just let’s put our head in the sand and we’ll just figure out, that’s where that can really trip people up.

[00:30:00]

So I think that’s a really good piece of advice to just circle back to for people is have a bit of a think. You don’t need to have the five-year plan and do a whole structure, but actually thinking, ” coming up? Where do I want things to be, and what might I need to start doing now?” So whether that’s empty nest, whether that’s more money or going back to work or reducing work or… It’s not avoiding that, and it can be really hard and you want to avoid it ’cause it’s uncomfortable. it really can set you up for little bit more ease during some of those life stages and transitions.

[00:31:00]

Fi: Yeah, absolutely. And it’s so easy to to feel like we’ve got connection when really so much of that is online now, and it’s easy to stay home. We’ve got, streaming services on tap. There’s always something we could watch. We can connect with people on social media. So I feel like it’s harder to get out, but it’s more important than ever before to really make the effort to get out and connect on that deeper level, like whether that’s in person or just with people where you can have those deeper conversations that we don’t get online.

And I feel like there’s eventually gonna be a real change of the tide there, right? Where people will come back to that. But that’s so important as well. So just make sure that, yeah, the connection is that deep connection that you need and that you’re not going for the easy win, which is sitting on the couch on your phone while you’re watching something, which I will admit I do that plenty of time.

But it’s my way to release at the end of the day. But yeah, we’ve gotta have those deeper conversations as well, don’t we? Deeper connections.

Marie: I, I absolutely agree, and that’s one of the things that I try to talk about a lot on the podcast and in my work with people our relationships and our mental health are so entwined, and we feel good when we’re around people.

[00:32:00]

And even if there’s, trauma, we- trauma’s healed often through other people holding space for that and witnessing that.

And you can read a whole bunch of self-help books, but sometimes you gotta ne- you gotta do the thing, right? You can read about running, but at one point you’ve gotta lace up the shoes and run

Fi: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah

Marie: and I get it. My couch is super comfy, my dog is super cuddly, there’s great stuff on TV, some of these require investing in

And community. So

Fi: Yeah. Absolutely

Marie: talk to you for hours and hours, but we’ll have to leave it there. Thank you so much for sharing bits of your story. And I’ll put links to the show notes to all the different ways people can work with you and find you. Thanks so much, Fi

Fi: Thank you so much for having me, and I hope to anyone listening, I hope that was helpful or just even relatable. But yeah, it was so good to be here, and thanks for asking me

Marie: My pleasure